Honestly, I like the idea of having a fatigue system in place. Keeps the economy in auction market stable.
Unless you guys want to end up like PW Rusty Hearts. That game died, unfortunately. :c
this game will die too cause of fag system. i mean unless you don't notice the fag system. then it could be ok. that fag system where you can still play but have reduced exp when you out of fag system sounds fine too.
Why you keep repeating the "fag system" are you okay?
Honestly, I like the idea of having a fatigue system in place. Keeps the economy in auction market stable.
Unless you guys want to end up like PW Rusty Hearts. That game died, unfortunately. :c
this game will die too cause of fag system. i mean unless you don't notice the fag system. then it could be ok. that fag system where you can still play but have reduced exp when you out of fag system sounds fine too.
Why you keep repeating the "fag system" are you okay?
idk why Richard is but the Fatigue system i dont think will be much of a issue there probably going to be some Fatigue items to recharge your fatigue anyways that you can get in game on from market
Honestly, I like the idea of having a fatigue system in place. Keeps the economy in auction market stable.
Unless you guys want to end up like PW Rusty Hearts. That game died, unfortunately. :c
this game will die too cause of fag system. i mean unless you don't notice the fag system. then it could be ok. that fag system where you can still play but have reduced exp when you out of fag system sounds fine too.
Why you keep repeating the "fag system" are you okay?
wtf? didn't even realize i did that. i think i'm ok lol.
Display MoreHonestly, I like the idea of having a fatigue system in place. Keeps the economy in auction market stable.
Unless you guys want to end up like PW Rusty Hearts. That game died, unfortunately. :c
this game will die too cause of fag system. i mean unless you don't notice the fag system. then it could be ok. that fag system where you can still play but have reduced exp when you out of fag system sounds fine too.
Why you keep repeating the "fag system" are you okay?
idk why Richard is but the Fatigue system i dont think will be much of a issue there probably going to be some Fatigue items to recharge your fatigue anyways that you can get in game on from market
idk ether lol and i think they said there will be. but how much/hard to get them another thing. think they said there a limit use on them too.
only got a passing minute on this but fatigue systems aren't inherently good or bad it just depends if they are used as an excuse to push players up to a fremium account model. It's a tool and it's often misused so here's hoping that balance is reached 
only got a passing minute on this but fatigue systems aren't inherently good or bad it just depends if they are used as an excuse to push players up to a fremium account model. It's a tool and it's often misused so here's hoping that balance is reached
Fatigue is an inherent system to gate progression, nothing more. For most games, they use it to limit gameplay as a way to reduce costs by forcing people offline. For others, they use it as a way to push sales of premium currency to get you to buy more or to speed up progress.
Honestly, I like the idea of having a fatigue system in place. Keeps the economy in auction market stable.
Unless you guys want to end up like PW Rusty Hearts. That game died, unfortunately. :c
Fatigue systems do not keep a market stable. Take a look at games like Dungeon Fighter Online and Closers. Even in Closer's short 4 months or so, the economy has already become unstable and that game has one of the strictest fatigue systems out there. Both games suffer from the lack of a common gold sink. In Dungeon Fighter Online, there's literally nothing to spend your gold on. Even though you probably grind down most of your gear into materials, the gold you earn cannot even be used to buy potions. As for Closers, they have some gold sinks once per update for the new gear, but that's about it. The market is pretty much dead and trading goes through individual players rather than the market system because of how terrible the market system is.
Remember that Rusty Hearts also had a fatigue system. Maybe that is something that contributed to its early demise as well.
only got a passing minute on this but fatigue systems aren't inherently good or bad it just depends if they are used as an excuse to push players up to a fremium account model. It's a tool and it's often misused so here's hoping that balance is reached
Fatigue is an inherent system to gate progression, nothing more. For most games, they use it to limit gameplay as a way to reduce costs by forcing people offline. For others, they use it as a way to push sales of premium currency to get you to buy more or to speed up progress.
I don't think we are on entirely different pages here to be honest. Gating happens in lots of games and are a tool to direct players. So yeah they are used like this, whether the tool is a bad thing is another discussion as opposed to how it's being used I suppose
This will be a long post, as I'll be covering a number of the nonsense statements people make regarding stamina systems in games. I've dealt with people on the issue enough to know that no matter how many facts, and statements of logic you throw at them, some will still stubbornly stick to their own self-serving lies, rather than accept the truth of the matter, so don't plan on posting anything in this thread after this post.
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If stamina was meant to limit the amount of time spent in a game, as many claim, it would work by measuring the time spent, instead, it measures, and thereby limits the amount of certain content that can be consumed by a character. Just imagine how impossible it would be to try to effectively enforce speed limit laws, without monitoring the speed people drive. If one were to do content they are over powered for, in a team of other characters over powered for the content, not read quest text, skip cutscenes, skip the mobs you don't need to kill, not pick up most loot, and other things to get to, and kill the end boss in as little time as possible, you could consume all the daily stamina a game typically will provide on that character in as little as an hour, or less. If instead one were to do content they were not over powered for, play solo, read all the quest text, watch the cutscenes, kill all the mobs, pick up all the loot, and the other things that would be skipped in the other example, it could take several hours to consume all your daily stamina in the same game. This is an actual example, of what actually happens, which demonstrates how completely ineffective these stamina systems would be at limiting the time spent in a game, when they don't measure the time spent in a game. This issue is further compounded by the fact that stamina tends to be a per character resource, these games tend to provide a number of free character slots, and there's usually content that consumes no stamina, which could mean that depending on how you play, you could have more hours of game play available per day, than there are hours in a day.
If stamina systems were used as a way to enforce Korean laws, as many claim, all Korean online games would have them, they don't. Instead really only the town hub, action RPG, instanced dungeon crawler genre started by Dungeon Fighter Online, and Soulworker is a part of have such a system. This isn't as such systems were removed from other online games when they came over here, it's as those other games didn't have such systems in the first place. This tells us that such systems has to do with the games in question, not anything outside of the game.
If stamina systems were used as a way to enforce Korean laws, it could target players of high school age, and younger, as well as to prevent them from playing during certain times of the day, as that's what the law people casually reference involves. Stamina systems although can't tell the difference between noon, and midnight, or the difference between a kid, and a senior citizen, so obviously can't be used to enforce such a law.
Now with all this being the case, to believe it is there to limit time played, and relates such laws would require that you also believe the devs of these games are complete idiots to have not thought of how ineffective such a system would be for that role in advance, then even greater fools to have not noticed how ineffective it is in the over ten years the system has been used, and all this was also completely unnoticed by law enforcement officials in that time as well. Since all that would be completely absurd, the far more reasonable conclusion is that these system are not there to limit time spent due to outside social issues, but rather are there to limit the amount of content consumed, which is an issue of concern for game balance. This point is further verified when the devs of Dungeon Fighter Online self-published the game for the global market a ways back, some complained that the devs should remove stamina in the global release, but the devs insisted it was important to help manage things in game, which would be associated with the amount of content a player could consume. Here we have the devs of the game that started this genre, and originated this system, making no mention of it being there to limit time spent in game, but instead there to limit content consumed for game balance reasons, so either those devs don't know what it's for, or the people claiming it's there to limit time spent in game, due to Korean laws don't.
Enforcement of the law people keep insisting it is there for is apparently handled by the publisher directly, not by each game. To make an account you must provide something like a Korean ID, which provides your birthdate, then from what I understand, affected accounts will find their connection to the service disabled during the stipulated times. Surely any reasonable person would view that as an infinitely more effective means of enforcement.
Then the law people keep claiming the stamina system is there to enforce was enacted on 2011/05/11. Dungeon Fighter Online, with its stamina system in place, was released in Korea in 2005, and in North America in 2010, some other games in this genre, with their stamina system in place, were also released before that law was enacted. With no laws in place until several years later, it makes no sense to claim they exist due to such laws.
Next you can determine what a game is meant for, based on what means provides the most effective way forward, while things that would continually prove problematic, can't be the intended role of the game. Take shooters as an example, they typically will have at least one melee attack, but while there could be many types of guns, and related upgrades, the same would not be true for melee, also there will be cases melee will not work, as the target will always be out of melee range. This is why even though they do often have melee attacks, they're regarded as shooters, not brawlers, or hack, and slash games. Similarly, games with stamina systems were made for people that want to play alts, that's obvious by how much they encourage people to do so with a number of available character slots, playing alts allows access to multiple times more game content, combined with content that doesn't consume stamina results in effectively limitless play time, how they regularly add new playable characters/classes, and often have bonuses that are best, or only obtained by playing alts. At the same time playing only one character means you have access to far less content, may be completely cut off from various bonus systems, and other things that make playing more difficult. If you only want to play one character, and play for long periods of time, then just as you shouldn't play a shooter, if you don't like shooters, you shouldn't play games made for people that want to play alts. There's many games made for people that want to grind all day with one character, go play one of those if that's what you want to do, rather than try to insist a game made for people that want to play alts be fundamentally altered to suit your preferences.
Online games are not made with the intent that people would be able to blast through the content in no time at all, so always put limiting factors in them, and ways to encourage people to log in every day, like log in rewards. Grind is a common limiter, but heavy grind, in a game with separate playable characters makes them very ill suited to those that want to play alts. For these games that want to make playing alts the intended means of play, they don't use as much grind, but extend things by instead limiting how much content can be consumed over a period. This tends to be the balancing factor, and you can see this in action when games using a stamina system, tinker with it. Take Kritika as a recent for instance, in the NA/EU release you effectively have limitless stamina, but the more stamina you consume, the lower your rate of gains, or the higher the degree of grind.
Some try to claim that the stamina system in a game prevent people from ever being able to catch up if they were to fall behind. The thing with these games is as they are made for people that want to play multiple characters, and routinely add new playable characters/classes, they tend to be much lighter on grind than a grind heavy game is, so getting to level cap, and acquiring the good equipment is a much more feasible goal here. Due to their design goal of being made for those that want to play alts, catching up is quite possible, it's instead those grind heavy games where you may never be able to catch up, especially if it has some infinite levelling system.
People also complain that they don't like stamina systems because they don't like being told what to do (play alts), and limited, if that's the case, go play make-believe by yourself. Any other games, especially structured ones like video games typically classed as some form of RPG, always have limits/restrictions, and tell the player what to do, or what else did you think things like rules, game mechanics, and quests were about? As noted earlier, if content restrictions were lessened, you'd instead get increased restrictions on your gains (more grind), grind heavy games tell you that if you want something, grind your ass off all day, every day, as efficiently as possible, on only one character, and maybe you'll get it, eventually, so are hardly some free-form limitless experience. Let's also not forget that you guys insisting you don't like to be told what to do, are busy telling the devs of these games what to do with their own games, and telling those of us that want to play alts, not to play alts in a game made for those of us that want to play alts. The problem isn't that people don't want to be told what to do, and limited, it's that you guys want to play these games like you do the grind heavy games, but can't, so are insisting they be changed to such a game.
What has kept this fallacy of stamina systems being related to Korean laws, and other such things going is that no matter how many points of fact, and logical arguments are presented to disprove these arguments, people still insist on believing their self-serving lies, rather than accept the truth. The people that rant about stamina systems the most are not the target audience of altaholic players, but those that want to play one character, and only one character, then use it for many hours a day, while smashing their way through content as quickly as humanly possible, just as they do with those heavy grind based games that were made for how they want to play. These games simply aren't made to be played in the way they want to play them, but instead of accepting that, they make up these absurd lies, and insist the game should be fundamentally changed, while typically claiming the game will die otherwise. Do these people also for instance go into the forums of a say a shooter, and insist it be turned into a brawler, because that's the way they think all games should be? Different games, are made for different audiences, this applies not only to differences in game genres, but also in how people want to play a game, if you don't want to play alts, don't play games made for those of us that do.
I need a TL DR
I need a TL DR
TL:DR - how stamina/fatigue system came to be, backstory of how Korean society views gaming addiction, what said systems suppose to enforce for, how Western communities sees it with collective opinion.
At the end of the day, certain gaming system isn't suitable for everybody since the general gaming market is saturated with different varieties/genre.
Display MoreThis will be a long post, as I'll be covering a number of the nonsense statements people make regarding stamina systems in games. I've dealt with people on the issue enough to know that no matter how many facts, and statements of logic you throw at them, some will still stubbornly stick to their own self-serving lies, rather than accept the truth of the matter, so don't plan on posting anything in this thread after this post.
-------------------------------------
If stamina was meant to limit the amount of time spent in a game, as many claim, it would work by measuring the time spent, instead, it measures, and thereby limits the amount of certain content that can be consumed by a character. Just imagine how impossible it would be to try to effectively enforce speed limit laws, without monitoring the speed people drive. If one were to do content they are over powered for, in a team of other characters over powered for the content, not read quest text, skip cutscenes, skip the mobs you don't need to kill, not pick up most loot, and other things to get to, and kill the end boss in as little time as possible, you could consume all the daily stamina a game typically will provide on that character in as little as an hour, or less. If instead one were to do content they were not over powered for, play solo, read all the quest text, watch the cutscenes, kill all the mobs, pick up all the loot, and the other things that would be skipped in the other example, it could take several hours to consume all your daily stamina in the same game. This is an actual example, of what actually happens, which demonstrates how completely ineffective these stamina systems would be at limiting the time spent in a game, when they don't measure the time spent in a game. This issue is further compounded by the fact that stamina tends to be a per character resource, these games tend to provide a number of free character slots, and there's usually content that consumes no stamina, which could mean that depending on how you play, you could have more hours of game play available per day, than there are hours in a day.
If stamina systems were used as a way to enforce Korean laws, as many claim, all Korean online games would have them, they don't. Instead really only the town hub, action RPG, instanced dungeon crawler genre started by Dungeon Fighter Online, and Soulworker is a part of have such a system. This isn't as such systems were removed from other online games when they came over here, it's as those other games didn't have such systems in the first place. This tells us that such systems has to do with the games in question, not anything outside of the game.
If stamina systems were used as a way to enforce Korean laws, it could target players of high school age, and younger, as well as to prevent them from playing during certain times of the day, as that's what the law people casually reference involves. Stamina systems although can't tell the difference between noon, and midnight, or the difference between a kid, and a senior citizen, so obviously can't be used to enforce such a law.
Now with all this being the case, to believe it is there to limit time played, and relates such laws would require that you also believe the devs of these games are complete idiots to have not thought of how ineffective such a system would be for that role in advance, then even greater fools to have not noticed how ineffective it is in the over ten years the system has been used, and all this was also completely unnoticed by law enforcement officials in that time as well. Since all that would be completely absurd, the far more reasonable conclusion is that these system are not there to limit time spent due to outside social issues, but rather are there to limit the amount of content consumed, which is an issue of concern for game balance. This point is further verified when the devs of Dungeon Fighter Online self-published the game for the global market a ways back, some complained that the devs should remove stamina in the global release, but the devs insisted it was important to help manage things in game, which would be associated with the amount of content a player could consume. Here we have the devs of the game that started this genre, and originated this system, making no mention of it being there to limit time spent in game, but instead there to limit content consumed for game balance reasons, so either those devs don't know what it's for, or the people claiming it's there to limit time spent in game, due to Korean laws don't.
Enforcement of the law people keep insisting it is there for is apparently handled by the publisher directly, not by each game. To make an account you must provide something like a Korean ID, which provides your birthdate, then from what I understand, affected accounts will find their connection to the service disabled during the stipulated times. Surely any reasonable person would view that as an infinitely more effective means of enforcement.
Then the law people keep claiming the stamina system is there to enforce was enacted on 2011/05/11. Dungeon Fighter Online, with its stamina system in place, was released in Korea in 2005, and in North America in 2010, some other games in this genre, with their stamina system in place, were also released before that law was enacted. With no laws in place until several years later, it makes no sense to claim they exist due to such laws.
Next you can determine what a game is meant for, based on what means provides the most effective way forward, while things that would continually prove problematic, can't be the intended role of the game. Take shooters as an example, they typically will have at least one melee attack, but while there could be many types of guns, and related upgrades, the same would not be true for melee, also there will be cases melee will not work, as the target will always be out of melee range. This is why even though they do often have melee attacks, they're regarded as shooters, not brawlers, or hack, and slash games. Similarly, games with stamina systems were made for people that want to play alts, that's obvious by how much they encourage people to do so with a number of available character slots, playing alts allows access to multiple times more game content, combined with content that doesn't consume stamina results in effectively limitless play time, how they regularly add new playable characters/classes, and often have bonuses that are best, or only obtained by playing alts. At the same time playing only one character means you have access to far less content, may be completely cut off from various bonus systems, and other things that make playing more difficult. If you only want to play one character, and play for long periods of time, then just as you shouldn't play a shooter, if you don't like shooters, you shouldn't play games made for people that want to play alts. There's many games made for people that want to grind all day with one character, go play one of those if that's what you want to do, rather than try to insist a game made for people that want to play alts be fundamentally altered to suit your preferences.
Online games are not made with the intent that people would be able to blast through the content in no time at all, so always put limiting factors in them, and ways to encourage people to log in every day, like log in rewards. Grind is a common limiter, but heavy grind, in a game with separate playable characters makes them very ill suited to those that want to play alts. For these games that want to make playing alts the intended means of play, they don't use as much grind, but extend things by instead limiting how much content can be consumed over a period. This tends to be the balancing factor, and you can see this in action when games using a stamina system, tinker with it. Take Kritika as a recent for instance, in the NA/EU release you effectively have limitless stamina, but the more stamina you consume, the lower your rate of gains, or the higher the degree of grind.
Some try to claim that the stamina system in a game prevent people from ever being able to catch up if they were to fall behind. The thing with these games is as they are made for people that want to play multiple characters, and routinely add new playable characters/classes, they tend to be much lighter on grind than a grind heavy game is, so getting to level cap, and acquiring the good equipment is a much more feasible goal here. Due to their design goal of being made for those that want to play alts, catching up is quite possible, it's instead those grind heavy games where you may never be able to catch up, especially if it has some infinite levelling system.
What has kept this fallacy of stamina systems being related to Korean laws, and other such things is that no matter how many points of fact, and logical arguments are presented to disprove these arguments, people still insist on believing their self-serving lies, rather than accept the truth. The people that rant about stamina systems the most are not the target audience of altaholic players, but those that want to play one character, and only one character, then use it for many hours a day, while smashing their way through content as quickly as humanly possible, just as they do with those heavy grind based games that were made for how they want to play. These games simply aren't made to be played in the way they want to play them, but instead of accepting that, they make up these absurd lies, and insist the game should be fundamentally changed, while typically claiming the game will die otherwise.
no matter what you say. for any game. they should never limit you and make you have to play alt. there a reason stamia system games aren't really well received here. it a useless and stupid system. you say it limit content per day. but that doesn't mean shit ether way. since people will get to end game ether way. a game is meant to be fun and not limit how long you can play. it also the reason closers failed. stamia system doesn't really help with anything. and yes everyone like different games. but doesn't mean people who like soul worker game type wouldn't be turn off by a stamia system. if they did what kritia did and just give less exp when you ran out of stamia (i think that how it work from what i read). then it be fine. i'll still play just cause i can. and these absurd lies you called them. are fake. they are real reasons backed up by facts. and if the system is bad. i haven't played it but real alot of shit about it. then it will fail like most if not all (which very few games of this type with stamia)stamia system games.
no matter what you say. for any game. they should never limit you and make you have to play alt. there a reason stamia system games aren't really well received here. it a useless and stupid system. you say it limit content per day. but that doesn't mean shit ether way. since people will get to end game ether way. a game is meant to be fun and not limit how long you can play. it also the reason closers failed. stamia system doesn't really help with anything. and yes everyone like different games. but doesn't mean people who like soul worker game type wouldn't be turn off by a stamia system. if they did what kritia did and just give less exp when you ran out of stamia (i think that how it work from what i read). then it be fine. i'll still play just cause i can. and these absurd lies you called them. are fake. they are real reasons backed up by facts. and if the system is bad. i haven't played it but real alot of shit about it. then it will fail like most if not all (which very few games of this type with stamia)stamia system games.
The only reason fatigue isn't well received is people don't like being told what to do.
Saying that "you can only play so much per day per character" is a restriction of freedom, people don't like it. That's a reasonable reaction, and we get it.
But it doesn't change the fact that the game was built on a foundation that took the fatigue system into account. There are a LOT of unforseen problems that happen if you just take it out like one of the bottom blocks in Jenga.
As an example, Dungeon Fighter Online was a South Korean game, developed by Neople and published by Nexon in North America some years back. It completely removed the fatigue system after a few years of running because of the same complaining.
As you can probably find by searching, DFO isn't being run by Nexon anymore. It was in fact shut down until Neople decided to self-publish the game internationally themselves.
There were plenty of reasons why it failed - one of the major ones being Nexon's terrible content droughts that went for 6-8 months at a time - but among them was the fact that gold sellers were inflating the crap out of the economy, since without fatigue restricting them they could just farm non-stop. Amassing huge amounts of money, pumping it into the market, driving up prices, to the point where if someone wanted a cute costume with in-game money they basically had to dedicate a couple of MONTHS of time to saving up, or hope they get extremely lucky with 0.15% drop rates on desirable items.
People also burned themselves out by playing too much all at once; because lets face it, you play a game for hours on end and your body WILL subconsciously associate the negative feelings of tiredness and repetitiveness with the activity you're doing - a.k.a the game itself. Deny it all you want, there are a LOT of people who will throw themselves at the game, play non-stop for two weeks, then state that "they're bored; when's the next patch; rip no new content" and the like.
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again; I think fatigue is a necessary evil. I will be pleasantly surprised if they're removing it entirely; but from seeing how it is overseas, Soul Worker has a LOT of ways of allowing you to "cheat" the system and extend playtime. Not to mention PVP IS NOT FATIGUE BASED AND CAN BE DONE INDEFINITELY.
So if the system forces me to pace myself and prevent burnout, while also fighting off issues like bots and stupid market pricing? Well, I'm a big boy. I can handle a little control over how much I am allowed to play.
Display Moreno matter what you say. for any game. they should never limit you and make you have to play alt. there a reason stamia system games aren't really well received here. it a useless and stupid system. you say it limit content per day. but that doesn't mean shit ether way. since people will get to end game ether way. a game is meant to be fun and not limit how long you can play. it also the reason closers failed. stamia system doesn't really help with anything. and yes everyone like different games. but doesn't mean people who like soul worker game type wouldn't be turn off by a stamia system. if they did what kritia did and just give less exp when you ran out of stamia (i think that how it work from what i read). then it be fine. i'll still play just cause i can. and these absurd lies you called them. are fake. they are real reasons backed up by facts. and if the system is bad. i haven't played it but real alot of shit about it. then it will fail like most if not all (which very few games of this type with stamia)stamia system games.
The only reason fatigue isn't well received is people don't like being told what to do.
Saying that "you can only play so much per day per character" is a restriction of freedom, people don't like it. That's a reasonable reaction, and we get it.
But it doesn't change the fact that the game was built on a foundation that took the fatigue system into account. There are a LOT of unforseen problems that happen if you just take it out like one of the bottom blocks in Jenga.
As an example, Dungeon Fighter Online was a South Korean game, developed by Neople and published by Nexon in North America some years back. It completely removed the fatigue system after a few years of running because of the same complaining.
As you can probably find by searching, DFO isn't being run by Nexon anymore. It was in fact shut down until Neople decided to self-publish the game internationally themselves.
There were plenty of reasons why it failed - one of the major ones being Nexon's terrible content droughts that went for 6-8 months at a time - but among them was the fact that gold sellers were inflating the crap out of the economy, since without fatigue restricting them they could just farm non-stop. Amassing huge amounts of money, pumping it into the market, driving up prices, to the point where if someone wanted a cute costume with in-game money they basically had to dedicate a couple of MONTHS of time to saving up, or hope they get extremely lucky with 0.15% drop rates on desirable items.
People also burned themselves out by playing too much all at once; because lets face it, you play a game for hours on end and your body WILL subconsciously associate the negative feelings of tiredness and repetitiveness with the activity you're doing - a.k.a the game itself. Deny it all you want, there are a LOT of people who will throw themselves at the game, play non-stop for two weeks, then state that "they're bored; when's the next patch; rip no new content" and the like.
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again; I think fatigue is a necessary evil. I will be pleasantly surprised if they're removing it entirely; but from seeing how it is overseas, Soul Worker has a LOT of ways of allowing you to "cheat" the system and extend playtime. Not to mention PVP IS NOT FATIGUE BASED AND CAN BE DONE INDEFINITELY.
So if the system forces me to pace myself and prevent burnout, while also fighting off issues like bots and stupid market pricing? Well, I'm a big boy. I can handle a little control over how much I am allowed to play.
If they removed the fatigue system this game would be dying within a month, theres just not enough content for them to justify removing fatigue, the other versions of the game are already almost dead because of the lack of content, we dont want that to happen to us right? we want to play for a longer period of time
Display MoreDisplay Moreno matter what you say. for any game. they should never limit you and make you have to play alt. there a reason stamia system games aren't really well received here. it a useless and stupid system. you say it limit content per day. but that doesn't mean shit ether way. since people will get to end game ether way. a game is meant to be fun and not limit how long you can play. it also the reason closers failed. stamia system doesn't really help with anything. and yes everyone like different games. but doesn't mean people who like soul worker game type wouldn't be turn off by a stamia system. if they did what kritia did and just give less exp when you ran out of stamia (i think that how it work from what i read). then it be fine. i'll still play just cause i can. and these absurd lies you called them. are fake. they are real reasons backed up by facts. and if the system is bad. i haven't played it but real alot of shit about it. then it will fail like most if not all (which very few games of this type with stamia)stamia system games.
The only reason fatigue isn't well received is people don't like being told what to do.
Saying that "you can only play so much per day per character" is a restriction of freedom, people don't like it. That's a reasonable reaction, and we get it.
But it doesn't change the fact that the game was built on a foundation that took the fatigue system into account. There are a LOT of unforseen problems that happen if you just take it out like one of the bottom blocks in Jenga.
As an example, Dungeon Fighter Online was a South Korean game, developed by Neople and published by Nexon in North America some years back. It completely removed the fatigue system after a few years of running because of the same complaining.
As you can probably find by searching, DFO isn't being run by Nexon anymore. It was in fact shut down until Neople decided to self-publish the game internationally themselves.
There were plenty of reasons why it failed - one of the major ones being Nexon's terrible content droughts that went for 6-8 months at a time - but among them was the fact that gold sellers were inflating the crap out of the economy, since without fatigue restricting them they could just farm non-stop. Amassing huge amounts of money, pumping it into the market, driving up prices, to the point where if someone wanted a cute costume with in-game money they basically had to dedicate a couple of MONTHS of time to saving up, or hope they get extremely lucky with 0.15% drop rates on desirable items.
People also burned themselves out by playing too much all at once; because lets face it, you play a game for hours on end and your body WILL subconsciously associate the negative feelings of tiredness and repetitiveness with the activity you're doing - a.k.a the game itself. Deny it all you want, there are a LOT of people who will throw themselves at the game, play non-stop for two weeks, then state that "they're bored; when's the next patch; rip no new content" and the like.
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again; I think fatigue is a necessary evil. I will be pleasantly surprised if they're removing it entirely; but from seeing how it is overseas, Soul Worker has a LOT of ways of allowing you to "cheat" the system and extend playtime. Not to mention PVP IS NOT FATIGUE BASED AND CAN BE DONE INDEFINITELY.
So if the system forces me to pace myself and prevent burnout, while also fighting off issues like bots and stupid market pricing? Well, I'm a big boy. I can handle a little control over how much I am allowed to play.
If they removed the fatigue system this game would be dying within a month, theres just not enough content for them to justify removing fatigue, the other versions of the game are already almost dead because of the lack of content, we dont want that to happen to us right? we want to play for a longer period of time
Yeah. Lets limit it to one dungeon a day so it lasts for a really really long time.
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Display MoreThis bank share has me titled. Makes no sense, also makes it so that you make no effort in making alts (only leveling). Then again AR cards can’t be transferred, but still....
AR Cards can be transferred to alts via bank, pretty sure I noted it before in this thread.
You can assume everything of value or importance can be bank-shared. That's the way it has been in other servers and will most likely not change here.
what’s the point of playing after you get everything then on 1 character if it’s transferrable? I mean it’s not your fault, not blaming you. Just think it’s a flawed system. Basically gear 1 character, but gear them all at the same time. Makes the game so boring. I don’t see how you guys are not getting tilted by this or the way the game is going about this don’t you think?
Well, if you wanted to gear all of your alts separately, you'd spend over 1 year diligently doing S-coin dailies and collecting attendance rewards to do it completely f2p. So having the ability to only gear 1 character, then bank share that gear on another alt (when you run out of FP on your main) is very appreciated. People would be tilted if you couldn't do that.
Edit: and trust me, you'll be NEVER done gearing up even one character to the max. There's lots of RNG systems at the endgame to make sure you won't get godly rolls on your gear so easily. It'll take you months upon months of daily grind to get close-to-godly stats on all of your gear, if you're lucky that is. I know some people who play 1 year completely f2p and still didn't get lucky to aquire god-level gear due to massive RNG systems.
You realize this is the first game I’ve ever heard of that I can bank share my god tier mains items through the bank for my alts. Dumbest thing ever.
Black Desert Online, one of the more popular MMOs out currently has 0 level requirement on Gear and there's no class requirement on Armor/Accessories. You could run with fully enhanced Boss gear on a Lv 1 character. The limitations are the classes (for the most part) all use unique weapons, so aside from a few exceptions you'll have to enhance new weapons for each of your alts while the armor/accessories are all top-tier leveled gear. It allowed me to level 6 alts to 50 (first softcap) in an hour each because I never really had to worry about being hit, as no enemy below lv 56 can really do damage to me.
Display MoreDisplay MoreDisplay Moreno matter what you say. for any game. they should never limit you and make you have to play alt. there a reason stamia system games aren't really well received here. it a useless and stupid system. you say it limit content per day. but that doesn't mean shit ether way. since people will get to end game ether way. a game is meant to be fun and not limit how long you can play. it also the reason closers failed. stamia system doesn't really help with anything. and yes everyone like different games. but doesn't mean people who like soul worker game type wouldn't be turn off by a stamia system. if they did what kritia did and just give less exp when you ran out of stamia (i think that how it work from what i read). then it be fine. i'll still play just cause i can. and these absurd lies you called them. are fake. they are real reasons backed up by facts. and if the system is bad. i haven't played it but real alot of shit about it. then it will fail like most if not all (which very few games of this type with stamia)stamia system games.
The only reason fatigue isn't well received is people don't like being told what to do.
Saying that "you can only play so much per day per character" is a restriction of freedom, people don't like it. That's a reasonable reaction, and we get it.
But it doesn't change the fact that the game was built on a foundation that took the fatigue system into account. There are a LOT of unforseen problems that happen if you just take it out like one of the bottom blocks in Jenga.
As an example, Dungeon Fighter Online was a South Korean game, developed by Neople and published by Nexon in North America some years back. It completely removed the fatigue system after a few years of running because of the same complaining.
As you can probably find by searching, DFO isn't being run by Nexon anymore. It was in fact shut down until Neople decided to self-publish the game internationally themselves.
There were plenty of reasons why it failed - one of the major ones being Nexon's terrible content droughts that went for 6-8 months at a time - but among them was the fact that gold sellers were inflating the crap out of the economy, since without fatigue restricting them they could just farm non-stop. Amassing huge amounts of money, pumping it into the market, driving up prices, to the point where if someone wanted a cute costume with in-game money they basically had to dedicate a couple of MONTHS of time to saving up, or hope they get extremely lucky with 0.15% drop rates on desirable items.
People also burned themselves out by playing too much all at once; because lets face it, you play a game for hours on end and your body WILL subconsciously associate the negative feelings of tiredness and repetitiveness with the activity you're doing - a.k.a the game itself. Deny it all you want, there are a LOT of people who will throw themselves at the game, play non-stop for two weeks, then state that "they're bored; when's the next patch; rip no new content" and the like.
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again; I think fatigue is a necessary evil. I will be pleasantly surprised if they're removing it entirely; but from seeing how it is overseas, Soul Worker has a LOT of ways of allowing you to "cheat" the system and extend playtime. Not to mention PVP IS NOT FATIGUE BASED AND CAN BE DONE INDEFINITELY.
So if the system forces me to pace myself and prevent burnout, while also fighting off issues like bots and stupid market pricing? Well, I'm a big boy. I can handle a little control over how much I am allowed to play.
If they removed the fatigue system this game would be dying within a month, theres just not enough content for them to justify removing fatigue, the other versions of the game are already almost dead because of the lack of content, we dont want that to happen to us right? we want to play for a longer period of time
Yeah. Lets limit it to one dungeon a day so it lasts for a really really long time.
Dont be so dramatic sweetie, no one here said they want 10 fatigue a day
Display MoreDisplay MoreDisplay MoreDisplay Moreno matter what you say. for any game. they should never limit you and make you have to play alt. there a reason stamia system games aren't really well received here. it a useless and stupid system. you say it limit content per day. but that doesn't mean shit ether way. since people will get to end game ether way. a game is meant to be fun and not limit how long you can play. it also the reason closers failed. stamia system doesn't really help with anything. and yes everyone like different games. but doesn't mean people who like soul worker game type wouldn't be turn off by a stamia system. if they did what kritia did and just give less exp when you ran out of stamia (i think that how it work from what i read). then it be fine. i'll still play just cause i can. and these absurd lies you called them. are fake. they are real reasons backed up by facts. and if the system is bad. i haven't played it but real alot of shit about it. then it will fail like most if not all (which very few games of this type with stamia)stamia system games.
The only reason fatigue isn't well received is people don't like being told what to do.
Saying that "you can only play so much per day per character" is a restriction of freedom, people don't like it. That's a reasonable reaction, and we get it.
But it doesn't change the fact that the game was built on a foundation that took the fatigue system into account. There are a LOT of unforseen problems that happen if you just take it out like one of the bottom blocks in Jenga.
As an example, Dungeon Fighter Online was a South Korean game, developed by Neople and published by Nexon in North America some years back. It completely removed the fatigue system after a few years of running because of the same complaining.
As you can probably find by searching, DFO isn't being run by Nexon anymore. It was in fact shut down until Neople decided to self-publish the game internationally themselves.
There were plenty of reasons why it failed - one of the major ones being Nexon's terrible content droughts that went for 6-8 months at a time - but among them was the fact that gold sellers were inflating the crap out of the economy, since without fatigue restricting them they could just farm non-stop. Amassing huge amounts of money, pumping it into the market, driving up prices, to the point where if someone wanted a cute costume with in-game money they basically had to dedicate a couple of MONTHS of time to saving up, or hope they get extremely lucky with 0.15% drop rates on desirable items.
People also burned themselves out by playing too much all at once; because lets face it, you play a game for hours on end and your body WILL subconsciously associate the negative feelings of tiredness and repetitiveness with the activity you're doing - a.k.a the game itself. Deny it all you want, there are a LOT of people who will throw themselves at the game, play non-stop for two weeks, then state that "they're bored; when's the next patch; rip no new content" and the like.
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again; I think fatigue is a necessary evil. I will be pleasantly surprised if they're removing it entirely; but from seeing how it is overseas, Soul Worker has a LOT of ways of allowing you to "cheat" the system and extend playtime. Not to mention PVP IS NOT FATIGUE BASED AND CAN BE DONE INDEFINITELY.
So if the system forces me to pace myself and prevent burnout, while also fighting off issues like bots and stupid market pricing? Well, I'm a big boy. I can handle a little control over how much I am allowed to play.
If they removed the fatigue system this game would be dying within a month, theres just not enough content for them to justify removing fatigue, the other versions of the game are already almost dead because of the lack of content, we dont want that to happen to us right? we want to play for a longer period of time
Yeah. Lets limit it to one dungeon a day so it lasts for a really really long time.
Dont be so dramatic sweetie, no one here said they want 10 fatigue a day
What if I want 10 fatigue a day?
Display MoreDisplay MoreDisplay MoreDisplay MoreDisplay MoreThe only reason fatigue isn't well received is people don't like being told what to do.
Saying that "you can only play so much per day per character" is a restriction of freedom, people don't like it. That's a reasonable reaction, and we get it.
But it doesn't change the fact that the game was built on a foundation that took the fatigue system into account. There are a LOT of unforseen problems that happen if you just take it out like one of the bottom blocks in Jenga.
As an example, Dungeon Fighter Online was a South Korean game, developed by Neople and published by Nexon in North America some years back. It completely removed the fatigue system after a few years of running because of the same complaining.
As you can probably find by searching, DFO isn't being run by Nexon anymore. It was in fact shut down until Neople decided to self-publish the game internationally themselves.
There were plenty of reasons why it failed - one of the major ones being Nexon's terrible content droughts that went for 6-8 months at a time - but among them was the fact that gold sellers were inflating the crap out of the economy, since without fatigue restricting them they could just farm non-stop. Amassing huge amounts of money, pumping it into the market, driving up prices, to the point where if someone wanted a cute costume with in-game money they basically had to dedicate a couple of MONTHS of time to saving up, or hope they get extremely lucky with 0.15% drop rates on desirable items.
People also burned themselves out by playing too much all at once; because lets face it, you play a game for hours on end and your body WILL subconsciously associate the negative feelings of tiredness and repetitiveness with the activity you're doing - a.k.a the game itself. Deny it all you want, there are a LOT of people who will throw themselves at the game, play non-stop for two weeks, then state that "they're bored; when's the next patch; rip no new content" and the like.
I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again; I think fatigue is a necessary evil. I will be pleasantly surprised if they're removing it entirely; but from seeing how it is overseas, Soul Worker has a LOT of ways of allowing you to "cheat" the system and extend playtime. Not to mention PVP IS NOT FATIGUE BASED AND CAN BE DONE INDEFINITELY.
So if the system forces me to pace myself and prevent burnout, while also fighting off issues like bots and stupid market pricing? Well, I'm a big boy. I can handle a little control over how much I am allowed to play.
If they removed the fatigue system this game would be dying within a month, theres just not enough content for them to justify removing fatigue, the other versions of the game are already almost dead because of the lack of content, we dont want that to happen to us right? we want to play for a longer period of time
Yeah. Lets limit it to one dungeon a day so it lasts for a really really long time.
Dont be so dramatic sweetie, no one here said they want 10 fatigue a day
What if I want 10 fatigue a day?
Then you won't even play the game, seeing as most dungeons are above the FP cost.
A fatigue system's true intention is one thing, it's presentation is another.
I'm sure there are ways to balance the economy, preserve player bases, extend content, etc. without resorting to a system that essentially labels itself as "Once this bar depletes, you can't play anymore".
A necessary evil, sure, but it doesn't have to be evil.
A fatigue system's true intention is one thing, it's presentation is another.
I'm sure there are ways to balance the economy, preserve player bases, extend content, etc. without resorting to a system that essentially labels itself as "Once this bar depletes, you can't play anymore".
A necessary evil, sure, but it doesn't have to be evil.
I agree entirely, and this is in fact doable; reworking economy, drop rates, and figuring out alternate systems would work for sure.
However, all of that is work done by the DEVS, and as much as I have looked forward to this game, its actually in Gameforge, the publisher's best interests to make sure the international version succeeds, not necessarily Lion Games the developer, who is already making ends meet with the JP and KR versions.
I assume as devs would be more concerned with creating new content and characters, not going back and replanning existing, functional systems because foreigners can't deal. But sure, if the game does well in the International version then I can see them deciding to put in the effort and work things out.
its fun how some think its "fine" with this system becouse of reasons they in the end justify with "its possible to cheat/buy to get more" isnt that the same as having no limit? xD
well in the end we as the players probly dont have a single thing to say as long Gameforge is just here to translate the game and after some weeks get the OK from overseas to change ingame cash shop, really hope it wont happen but sadly most asian games end up like that here in the west, and its sad to see good games getting destroyed by publishers that just wanna milk the "money whales" in some weeks time instead of trying to get a good overall income. ( please Gameforge dont ruin this anime style game they are rare from the begining )
well we can just wait and see and hopfully have a good time ingame when they release it "Soon"
