Skill builds for all 6 classes

    Yo man, you seem like you know more about Erwin then I do, but I have a few questions regarding your recommendations.


    Firstly, why would gun combination and combat master be great for procing his regen passive? They both cost 2 SG "points", or w/e you call Erwin's SG meter, while his regen passive restores 2 SG points as well, so you're back at 0 net gain. I mean, if they're used to keep enemies at bay then I'm all for it, but if you were using them just for the sake of procing the passive, then they bring nothing to the table. You might as well take the time to better reposition yourself or something.

    Secondly, if someone cared that much about Erwin eating stamina aggressively, they would get the Megiddo Maker AR card that restores 20-25% stamina per 5.5 seconds at max rank anyway. That 10% more stamina gain from stamina mastery is a measly 0.3 stamina per second (or 1 dodge per 67 seconds), which is nothing compared to that AR card.


    My last point is pretty personal so I don't mind if you ignore it. I'm just gonna put it in a spoiler below to not ruin the proper discussion here.

    Display Spoiler

    :closed1:

    I really appreciate the work you did and don't worry about small mistakes! Plus, it does not change a lot that it's not a party buff, anyone playing Erwin would quickly notice it anyway so... no big deal. I asked for different opinion about Erwin build not to make an argument, sorry :( I was just curious if there are any other versions of his build as there are literally none on the internet and my knowledge is very limited.

    I literally wrote it makes them cost nothing, not that they would net you SG lol. A free boost to damage or efficiency is a no brainer.


    If Meggido alone is enough to cover all your stamina needs, you're not doing enough. And yes, all of my AR are maxed. The extra point in it is because there is literal gain, as opposed to no gain. And there's plenty of points to go around. You could also slow your playstyle to not need the stamina, whatever floats your boat.


    I'll ignore your last point because it is of no concern to me.

    oh_i_get_it_fight_club.gif

    Max stamina is recommended in asian servers, and sometimes ppl like to talk bad about NA/western players xD


    I think 3 sp is worth for Endure 5 just cause why not? Dodge helps most classes chain skills fluidly/increases margin of safety which is a better DPS increase than leveling up another skill. Holding back DPS to conserve stamina is more of a loss than 40% dmg on 1 skill.


    Also erwins SF regen description says 2 globes recovered but it's actually 3 =.=


    Erwin's Gun Combo/Point Blank apparently does good filler damage but it needs to be maxed with extension, it's an all or nothing skill. Since I ended up maxing Combat Master/On Point, Shield and Napalm i left Gun Combo/Point Blank at 1. I also maxed the Retaliation cause i thought the 3 second iframe would be good but.... i don't use it much and it's a bit overkill with the lvl 5 Shield, and erwin has a long iframe with his 42 ^^; Would be useful for pvp tho


    There's always Soulfizz pots and breaker ampules so any deficiency in skill build can be compensated with consumables (druggie life LOL)


    *Max napalm has the highest SAbreak for a non-ultimate skill (equal to Soullauncher actually) and only jin has a skill with higher SAB. So i took it cause erwin is the SAB char in this game but since breaker ampules exist it does feel a bit pointless unless there's content where you can't use consumables

    Edited once, last by ceruulean ().

    Quote from ceruulean

    There's always Soulfizz pots and breaker ampules so any deficiency in skill build can be compensated with consumables (druggie life LOL)

    Unless we go Steel Grave where pots are not allowed xD

    I really wonder if On Point is worth getting at all? There are no guides for Erwin so I struggle with what to take and what to ignore x_x

    Quote from Abinel
    Quote from ceruulean

    There's always Soulfizz pots and breaker ampules so any deficiency in skill build can be compensated with consumables (druggie life LOL)

    Unless we go Steel Grave where pots are not allowed xD

    I really wonder if On Point is worth getting at all? There are no guides for Erwin so I struggle with what to take and what to ignore x_x

    Well i think should get at least 1 point, when im swarmed with mobs it pushes them away and if maxed does decent damage on large boss up close

    Quote from ceruulean
    Quote from Abinel
    Quote from ceruulean

    There's always Soulfizz pots and breaker ampules so any deficiency in skill build can be compensated with consumables (druggie life LOL)

    Unless we go Steel Grave where pots are not allowed xD

    I really wonder if On Point is worth getting at all? There are no guides for Erwin so I struggle with what to take and what to ignore x_x

    Well i think should get at least 1 point, when im swarmed with mobs it pushes them away and if maxed does decent damage on large boss up close

    Hmmm sounds useful, gonna take the skill then :)

    Quote from Abinel
    Quote from ceruulean

    There's always Soulfizz pots and breaker ampules so any deficiency in skill build can be compensated with consumables (druggie life LOL)

    Unless we go Steel Grave where pots are not allowed xD

    I really wonder if On Point is worth getting at all? There are no guides for Erwin so I struggle with what to take and what to ignore x_x

    Well Erwin's advancement has an extension to On Point/Combat Master so there's that as well. Even with that said, as I've mentioned above, I still feel it's more worthwhile to take the time to better position yourself for charged/channelled shots than use a less-dps skill at point blank and risk getting hit. Decide on whether it's your cup of tea or not.

    :closed1:

    Quote from ceruulean

    I think 3 sp is worth for Endure 5 just cause why not? Dodge helps most classes chain skills fluidly/increases margin of safety which is a better DPS increase than leveling up another skill. Holding back DPS to conserve stamina is more of a loss than 40% dmg on 1 skill.

    I do understand your motivations for promoting the 3 SP usage for Stamina Mastery 5, but what I don't get is how it's worth it given that it provides literally only 1 extra dodge in 67 seconds. The extent to which it will benefit you for that hefty cost is very minimal if you consider how many skills you will use, and how many times bosses will attack, within 67 seconds. And as stated above, it's not even worth anything if you take into account Megiddo Maker.


    The math:

    Assuming base stats of 3 stamina regen per second...


    1) With Lvl 4 Stamina Mastery and Max Star & Rank Megiddo Maker AR, you get (on average)

    3 + (3 x 0.4) + (25/5.5) = 8.74545 stamina regen per second,

    which equates to regen-ing 1 dodge every 2.28690 seconds,

    which equates to 29.29727 dodges per 67 seconds.


    2) With Lvl 5 Stamina Mastery and Max Star & Rank Megiddo Maker AR, you get (on average)

    3 + (3 x 0.5) + (25/5.5) = 9.04545 stamina regen per second,

    which equates to regen-ing 1 dodge every 2.21105 seconds,

    which equates to 30.30227 dodges per 67 seconds.


    If you wanna look at the percentage difference you get with reference to dodges per 67 seconds, it's only a 3.43% improvement compared to leaving Stamina Mastery at Lvl 4.


    I mean, you're free to do whatever you please, but what I strive towards is an objective opinion based on calculations.

    :closed1:

    Edited 3 times, last by Haloist: Calculation error ().

    Math should be


    (8.74545*67) / 20 = 29.3 dodges generated


    (9.04545*67) / 20 = 30.3 dodges generated


    Reinforcing the point of your 1 dodge per 67 seconds going level 4 to level 5. Right now your numbers from 67/(stam regen/s) makes no sense.

    Yes I noticed as soon as I posted it. Edited right after XD

    :closed1:

    Quote from Katakuri

    What are people's thoughts on leaving Stamina Mastery 0/5? It's quite common from what I've seen in guides on the Chinese version

    If you were to use my (or Natt's) calculations above, you can see that the increase in your dodges per 67 seconds will increase by approximately 1 per Lvl in Stamina Mastery.

    It's really debatable if Lvling it is even necessary, since it depends on 2 main factors: whether you have Megiddo Maker AR card (max Stars/Rank for a better advantage), and whether you spam dodges a lot during fights.

    Personally, I don't own Megiddo Maker since the economy in TW is pretty messed up right now; Big Puppet/Plastica costs upwards of 100m iirc.

    :closed1:

    Quote from Haloist
    Quote from Abinel
    Quote from ceruulean

    There's always Soulfizz pots and breaker ampules so any deficiency in skill build can be compensated with consumables (druggie life LOL)

    Unless we go Steel Grave where pots are not allowed xD

    I really wonder if On Point is worth getting at all? There are no guides for Erwin so I struggle with what to take and what to ignore x_x

    Well Erwin's advancement has an extension to On Point/Combat Master so there's that as well. Even with that said, as I've mentioned above, I still feel it's more worthwhile to take the time to better position yourself for charged/channelled shots than use a less-dps skill at point blank and risk getting hit. Decide on whether it's your cup of tea or not.

    So it's worth to max On Point? I know that I will not max Napalm, because it's a good skill even at 1, but what to max except the obvious ones (Sky High, Focus Shot, Guided Shot, Electric Shot and Soul Launcher)?

    My 2 cents about Stella builds (only going to point out stuff I don't agree with in OP's post). Of course I'll be talking about PvE stuff. If you're a PvP nerd then don't read this post.


    S1-2.png Should be always maxed with extension. Barely takes over 1 second to cast for endgame Stellas with 130+% attack speed.


    S1-5.png Should be always maxed. It's a very nice skill to use on big bosses and groups of mobs. It does multiple hits and transports mobs along with Stella. If you start this skill right near the mobs, all hits of this skill will hit. The damage is very nice for the relatively short duration of the skill.


    S1-6.png This skill should be either left at 1/5 or 5/5 with green extension at 1/3. Why? It's simple.

    a) Assuming you don't take the green extension: this skill takes a lot of time to charge, and attack speed doesn't affect the charge duration. The damage of this skill is not worth the long charge time, plus you very often won't have those 3 seconds needed to charge the skill without being hit. Leveling this skill will not increase healing of the orbs either.


    b) Assuming you take the green extension: Damage of this skill will decrease even more. The skill becomes useless for all bosses except VERY large ones like Primal/Saurus. This extension will make the beads travel slower and deal damage over time (about 3 hits per second). The damage is incredibly low, and is not worth the time to charge the skill even on very large bosses like Primal/Saurus or The Thing in District 6. The skill is pretty unnecessary for crowd control as well - it paralyzes the mobs, which makes them stand in place and get pushed back in all directions in front of you. This makes is hard to group the mobs together. At endgame, you want to kill all the mobs quickly, and the only way to do that is group them all together then use AoE skills (or use AoE Cards). You DON'T want to push away mobs, or paralyze them. If they are paralyzed, they will not follow you, so it makes it hard to group them up together.

    The only good use of this skill is getting high combo in Primal/Saurus. Why would you want high combo? It's the only way for Stella to get high combos in that dungeon. You need high combo to get better position in the ranking at the end of dungeon. Higher rank means better chance for more BP. If you don't care about the ranking in Primal, then simply don't bother with leveling this skill at all and just leave it at 1/5 and only use it for healing party members.


    S1-8.png Leveling this skill is uselessin PvE (it's very good in PvP though thanks to paralyzing aura). At 1/5, the cost to use this skill is too big and cooldown is too long. You'd need to max (or nearly max) this skill to make it "useful". The only good thing about this skill is... 1 second invincibility, about the same as when you press Shift to dodge on Stella. This basically means that this skill gives you 1 extra dodge every 30 seconds if you max this skill. From natural Stamina recovery, you get one dodge every 4 seconds. So every 30 seconds, you naturally get 7.5 dodges. If you max this skill, it becomes 8.5 dodges instead of 7.5 every 30 seconds. It's simply not worth spending 9 skill points just to get 8.5 dodges every 30 seconds instead of 7.5 dodges. If you're really bad with dodging and use way more dodges than you need, then you should be looking for AR Card that restores your Stamina. Or invest skill points into Stamina Mastery. One level of Stamina Mastery will give you an extra dodge every 40 seconds. It takes between 1 and 3 skill points to get one extra Stamina Mastery level. Compare that with 9 skill points needed to master this skill. I honestly can't understand why people would waste that many more skill points just for one more dodge every 30 seconds. If you're really overusing dodges, then there are other way better alternatives to getting more dodges than this skill.


    The other annoying effect of this skill in PvE is paralyzing aura. If you paralyze mobs, they'll be stuck in place and won't follow you. This makes is harder to group mobs together, as they stay in place and don't follow you. This ends up just wasting time if you intend on clearing the dungeons fast. And you'll want to clear dungeons fast because it gets incredibly boring at endgame to run the same stuff over and over again. You'll want to do it as quickly as possible to remain sane.

    Quote from Ice+

    -snip-

    Maxing the two skills you listed is going to give you some serious Skill Point issues when Stella's Advancement comes out, since Whirl Dance and Soul Scream end up being a must max at the same time. Something to keep in mind for all the free players out there since the chances of GF giving out a free skill reset might as well be 0.

    Quote from Ice+

    S1-8.png Leveling this skill is uselessin PvE (it's very good in PvP though thanks to paralyzing aura). At 1/5, the cost to use this skill is too big and cooldown is too long. You'd need to max (or nearly max) this skill to make it "useful". The only good thing about this skill is... 1 second invincibility, about the same as when you press Shift to dodge on Stella. This basically means that this skill gives you 1 extra dodge every 30 seconds if you max this skill. From natural Stamina recovery, you get one dodge every 4 seconds. So every 30 seconds, you naturally get 7.5 dodges. If you max this skill, it becomes 8.5 dodges instead of 7.5 every 30 seconds. It's simply not worth spending 9 skill points just to get 8.5 dodges every 30 seconds instead of 7.5 dodges. If you're really bad with dodging and use way more dodges than you need, then you should be looking for AR Card that restores your Stamina. Or invest skill points into Stamina Mastery. One level of Stamina Mastery will give you an extra dodge every 40 seconds. It takes between 1 and 3 skill points to get one extra Stamina Mastery level. Compare that with 9 skill points needed to master this skill. I honestly can't understand why people would waste that many more skill points just for one more dodge every 30 seconds. If you're really overusing dodges, then there are other way better alternatives to getting more dodges than this skill.


    The other annoying effect of this skill in PvE is paralyzing aura. If you paralyze mobs, they'll be stuck in place and won't follow you. This makes is harder to group mobs together, as they stay in place and don't follow you. This ends up just wasting time if you intend on clearing the dungeons fast. And you'll want to clear dungeons fast because it gets incredibly boring at endgame to run the same stuff over and over again. You'll want to do it as quickly as possible to remain sane.

    The reason I chose to max this was precisely for the paralysing aura (of course the iframe too but I think the comparison to a dodge was a fair one). If you max it, you get 13 seconds every 30 seconds to stun every enemy within melee range of you, except for bosses. This means that even Super Armored Elites are affected by the stun, so you stay relatively safe for the 10 seconds to freely dish out as much damage as you want.

    "Why 13 seconds?", you may ask. Well it's cuz the aura lasts for 10 seconds and the paralysis debuff itself lasts for 3 seconds. That's 43.33% of the fight with any enemy assuming you cast Soul Scream off cooldown, and are not fighting a boss.


    My next point is: why would you even cast Soul Scream when pulling mobs? I can't find any reason, so perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you would list the paralysis as a downside when it shouldn't even be in effect when grouping mobs. Plus, I think this possible downside can be corrected by using Black Morass's [LMB].

    :closed1: