Poll - Changing the Fatigue System

    It's fine as is. If you play the game as it's designed to be played, with multiple characters, stamina/energy is a complete non-issue in these games. They just need to add more character types, and more slots. Other versions have six character slots, and six characters, they could certainly stand to add more characters than that though.


    Also stamina/energy systems have NOTHING to do with Korean laws, meant to limit how long people play, other the other nonsense people claim it's there to do. All those things would require something that measures the amount of time a person has been playing, but these systems instead measure the amount of content a person has consumed, if you don't measure something, you can't regulate it. Then the first, and maybe only South Korean law relating to game play was enacted just shy of six years after the first game using a system like this was released there. Finally even in those grind focused games, they have plenty of limits on rewarding content with things like daily dungeons, and daily quests, so don't try to pretend no other game uses such limits, especially since those games also limit your rewards, which is why you need to grind your life away in them.


    If you want to play one char all day, this isn't the type of game for you, play something else. If they were to increase the amount of energy, or even remove it, you can bet the amount of grind would increase, as that's the balance online games on a whole work with, if it's rewarding, you can't do it too often, if you can do it as much as you want, the rewards are low. Play the games that provide what you're looking for, rather than selfishly insist established games be fundamentally altered to cater to you, at the detriment of others.

    I would like for it to be removed,

    I don't have any sophisticated reason behind it, I just don't see any use in Fatigue system in our day and age.

    Fatigue system has no place in the western market. Such a system can only really be justified as means to incentivize cash shop purchases here. There's a multitude of things wrong with such a system. For instance, with fatigue in place, everyone is forced to play every single day, burning all their energy if they wish to remain relevant. If they miss a day due to a real world commitment, they're behind. The energy they neglected to use that day is mostly wasted, never to be regained, and that puts everyone else that did play ahead. You can't grind extra on a day off to catch up, because you're limited by your energy cap. Aside from this, it creates a rift between friends. If a friend is a higher level, he feels as though helping his beginner buddy is simply a waste of his precious energy that would be better spent furthering his own character. Making alts just to play with a lower level friend without being penalized shouldn't be the answer. Having said that, the energy system also works in another way. Since it hinders progression, your buddies won't vastly outpace you if you miss a day, considering they'd cap out on runs for the day anyway. Naturally, the cash shop has energy restore potions, which is essentially pay2continue. There's more wrong with it, but this'll do for now.


    As a side note, Vindictus, when it launched in NA years ago also had a fatigue system. Purchasing tokens to continue your runs for the day didn't last, though. They ended up removing the fatigue system for NA due to the backlash, and because it wasn't as profitable of a move as they envisioned it to be.


    Oh, and I guess, remove it or not, doesn't really matter.


    Quote from PhoenixShi

    If you want to play one char all day, this isn't the type of game for you, play something else.

    It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone is interested in playing every class, nor do they enjoy the idea of being forced to stop progressing on their favorite class.

    i think we better not talk about something like this, fatigue system, ip banned, region blocked. this waste our time.

    they will not respond this. because this sytem already permanent with this games.


    they will say bla bla bla again like legal, laws agreement and some like that.

    if they think our comment here like attacking them. the CoMa or another Mod will CLOSED this thread.

    so better discuss another topic and dont discuss about game system, agreement ip & region blocked.

    even make SURVEY for this FATIGUE SYSYEM... 1000% sure they will NOT RESPOND THIS and WILL NEVER REMOVE this.



    Quote from pavelsimut

    If 90% of player base will leave coz of fatigue sistem i think they will at least change it @antareste

    even 100% player base will leave they will not change it this system.

    they will say about agreement, another publisher or legal right or something like that.

    like another thread and just say "sorry" or "already answered" or "cant give the solution now" or "close this thread". but they never give any solution till now. the best solution only CLOSE the thread. (end of topic)

    better join thread "stuff vs player". (idk wth this for... lmaoooo)

    I think if they keep the current freebies in the Cashshop, the game is good to go. You have 200 Energy Dailiy, plus an extra 100 through the Vitamin, plus 30 through your own mat. Providing every other players means if you share across 5 people that you will have 150 Energy over a time span of 2.5 hours.

    If you want to maximise your energy even more you can purchase 2 Vitamins that give 50 Energy (Grutin Shop) which yield another 100 Energy.


    Adding all these things up you have 400 Energy through Vitamins only, and 550 Energy by sitting on 5 Mats with the Energy. So instead of trying to change the system I think we should just ask for the freebies to stay. The Mats alone are awesome, and it still makes you take a break every once in a while.


    And additionally if you do not burn through the energy Vitamins you can just store them, and use them when you want to play heaps like on weekends.

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    Quote from Mello

    Quote from PhoenixShi

    If you want to play one char all day, this isn't the type of game for you, play something else.

    It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone is interested in playing every class, nor do they enjoy the idea of being forced to stop progressing on their favorite class.

    It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone wants to be locked into playing one character for long hours a day if you want to make any noticeable progress. If you don't want to play a game designed around playing alts, then don't play a game designed around playing alts.


    I don't like those heavy grind focused games, as I do like playing alts, but in those games with how heavy the character specific grind is, I would need, or am "forced" to play long hours, with just one character, as that's how they are designed to be played. Because of how those don't mesh with how I want to play, I don't play those games much at all, and if I do play them, I don't expect to get a lot out of them, or be able to make some powerful character, as I don't want to play in the way it was designed to be played, or to throw lots of real money at it to skip the grind, which many allow you to do these days. I also don't go to their forums demanding they change the way the game works, to cater to my preferences, and make crazy claims that if they don't, no one will want to play their game.


    Some people prefer to only play one character in a game, some want to play multiple characters, as a result, there will be some games trying to cater to either preference, just as there are games of different genres. The important thing is to find a game that provides the experience you want. No game is going to be for everyone, as every game is made to appeal to different audiences.

    Nothing stopping you from playing your alts on said games, if you progress slower or faster than the other is up to you.


    There's something preventing us from playing 1 character here. Why do you think the game was designed to play alts? I might like 1 out of 4 so I would be "forced" to play 3 others characters that I don't like at all or make all of them the same, makes no sense.

    I've been curious about something, syntax questions not withstanding-


    Question: Do the Japanese and Korean versions have this Fatigue system?

    - And if so, how are they so far? Are they doing well? is it business as usual?



    They have a fatigue system, but the game isn't doing too well over there. It's unlikely that the fatigue system is the sole determinant of their success though, as many games have similar systems there.


    Gameforge really should've done research into Western markets and copied WoW by calling it a 'rest experience bonus'. The two systems are quite literally the same thing, except people hate energy systems in MMOs and love rest experience bonuses.

    I agree that the WoW system is inherently superior, but SoulWorker is also fundamentally different from WoW and there's a lot of things in the game that are centered around the energy system. If Gameforge were the original developers I would be in support of this, but as it stands I think it's too large of a change to make. Tweaking the existing system to an acceptable level is more efficient given how ingrained it is in the base systems and how much of the game is built around it.

    One of the reasons we feel the brunt of the energy system is because of lowered exp rates, which requires us to run more missions for the same amount of progress a different client achieves.


    If the initial levelling experience didn't fail so badly by the time you hit lv 18/19, then I don't think there would be that much of an issue.



    Unless people want to argue on principle against a FP system.

    Quote from Zodai
    Quote from Prominis
    Quote from Neoyoshi

    Tweaking the existing system to an acceptable level is more efficient given how ingrained it is in the base systems and how much of the game is built around it.

    Is it tho? Would it be super hard to change the base EP to 300? Or to give a +5 per lvl bump to the base EP?

    That shouldn't change much of anything. The no-lifers are still going to be super unhappy, but for what is considered 'casual' by NA standards, 300-450 EP a day should be just fine and not game breaking.

    Quote from Zodai

    Tweaking the existing system to an acceptable level is more efficient given how ingrained it is in the base systems and how much of the game is built around it.


    I can definitely get behind the tweaking of the energy system versus a flat-out removal; i have seen varying degrees of success with other Online games changing how the System functions though-out the players game-time.


    My personal favorite alteration I've seen from another Online game was a system that kept in the Fatigue gauge, but the depletion of Fatigue did not keep players from gaining entry to a Dungeon/Raid.


    What this system did instead was simply lower the item drop rate in those dungeons based on how much Fatigue the character had left, and once it was completely empty, no items dropped at all. But Experience gain and Entry was left unchanged.


    This to me is the balance of what players ask for and what the game should have to sustain a stable economy.

    Quote from Case Nexus
    Quote from Zodai
    Quote from Prominis
    Quote from Neoyoshi

    Tweaking the existing system to an acceptable level is more efficient given how ingrained it is in the base systems and how much of the game is built around it.

    Is it tho? Would it be super hard to change the base EP to 300? Or to give a +5 per lvl bump to the base EP?

    That shouldn't change much of anything. The no-lifers are still going to be super unhappy, but for what is considered 'casual' by NA standards, 300-450 EP a day should be just fine and not game breaking.

    Those would be simpler changes, I was referring to if SoulWorkerGF just copied WoW's system wholesale. Tweaks like that should be fine if they're thought through and balanced appropriately.


    This is probably one of the best-case scenarios, but I'm perfectly fine with smaller changes as well myself. More focused on the energy costs and availability of more energy than changing how the basic mechanics function on my end, since changes to the base mechanics will probably take more work and bureaucratic justification to get through.

    The "best" fatigue system I saw was Kritika I think, they have it but once you run out you get normal exp, drop rates. So at a reset you would get 200x exp, once you ran out back to 100%, believe I saw someone comparing the two games in a different post too.


    I think a lot of people associate fatigue with Facebook games.

    Quote from wolfsoldier5

    The "best" fatigue system I saw was Kritika I think, they have it but once you run out you get normal exp, drop rates. So at a reset you would get 200x exp, once you ran out back to 100%, believe I saw someone comparing the two games in a different post too.


    I think a lot of people associate fatigue with Facebook games.

    That's where a lot of the negative associations come from, SoulWorker is/should (inherent in the kind of game it is) be balanced differently from those, even barring the possibility of paying to get more. We as players need to have an understanding of why the energy system exists in detail so we can give accurate feedback that pushes it to balancing healthier for an MMO than a facebook game.

    In those grind heavy games, even if you focused on the one character, it'd still be a long slog to level up, and get equipment, especially given how character specific all that tends to be, what with so many things often even being character bound on pick up. If you played multiple characters, then as I said, you just wouldn't be able to get very far on any of them. Often enough events, and the game on a whole will expect players to be at a certain point in the game to be able to participate effectively, or at all. Take Blade & Soul, as more, and more content is added, the Daily Challenge tasks shift further, and further forward, as do the demands many in the community place on other players in terms of stats, and equipment. A common enough complaint there is how difficult it is for a new, and casual player to be able to do the Daily Challenge, and participate in events given the requirements that the community especially places on participation. Doing the Daily Challenge, and participating in events, which often are linked to the Daily Challenge, is also very important to advancement in the game. All that is made even more vital in a game like Blade & Soul where so much of the game is dependant on group play, if you can't get a team, as people put demands well in excess of the indicated recommendations, which people often do, you can't participate. Also in those games vets will routinely tell new players to pick one character, and stick with it, as there just won't be enough time to devote to multiple chars if you want to get very far on them.


    Often enough in those grind heavier games, gains can be player specific, as items could be character bound on pick up, or there may not even be any form of trading in the game, storage can be player specific, little interaction may even be possible between characters on your own account, there can be few playable characters/classes, and few character slots. In these games items will usually be bound on equip, or account bound. Most items are listed as soulbound on receipt/equip, soulbound is the same as account bound in this game, so you can take your nice equipment off, stick it in your bank, and have another char use it if it's not marked "storing not possible." Games in this genre routinely put out many characters over time, this one is lacking in that, which is why I said early they should add more than the six available in other regions. There's usually account shared bonus systems, or grinds that are best, or only progressed by playing alts. Then the mere fact people complain how hard it is to play these games using only one character in of itself demonstrates that it is not the intended method, as if you played multiple characters, you'd have multiple times more content to do, and it wouldn't really be an issue.


    This genre has been around for over ten years, each game in it tends to be quite similar to the others, and using some form of a stamina system is standard in them. If the system was such a problem, and so almost universally hated as people keep trying to claim, then why would the first game in this genre, Dungeon Fighter Online, have been for years among the top ten most profitable online games in the world?