Gameforge vs JP server [UPDATED 2018.3.11]

    Quote from Bluhen

    I keep seeing "Why follow a dead server?" and I am pretty sure I know the answer. LionGames is korean. Therefore, obviously, our build is based off of the korean version. Gameforge cannot go and cherrypick whatever features they want to have from whatever server. They can't go ahead and say "we want the KR content, but JP crafting, but KR balance, but JP EXP" and so on.


    This is also why they can't offer you japanese voices. Different voice overs are usually made by publishers, which means GF would have to obtain the rights to use them, which costs money. Is that money really worth using? If you ask me - no. They can't buy anything from weebs' happiness that are happy about the JP voices. And I doubt they would suddenly turn into paying customers, just because of some voices.


    What they can do is to ask LionGames if adjustments could be made, because the west isn't exactly keen on grind fests. I doubt that Gameforge can just go ahead and change how the entire game works. Giving them freedom on what to put into the cash shop semi-backfired as well, from what we've seen. However, for Gameforge to ask the developer for these adjustments, you have to bring up solid, well-formed arguments that aren't "but JP has it this way, why can't we?".

    Your argument makes no sense since JP also got their server from KR since the game is developed by KR. So obviously publishers CAN request things to be changed for their region.


    And from what I've read, KR's servers are dead, so why follow a dead server?


    So if JP's publisher can get these benefits for their players, then GameForge should be able to do the same for us since they represent a much larger playerbase/region and should have much greater influence.

    Quote from Critic

    Your argument makes no sense since JP also got their server from KR since the game is developed by KR. So obviously publishers CAN request things to be changed for their region.


    And from what I've read, KR's servers are dead, so why follow a dead server?


    So if JP's publisher can get these benefits for their players, then GameForge should be able to do the same for us since they represent a much larger playerbase/region and should have much greater influence.

    Well, that's exactly what I said, no? GF can request changes, but since Liongames is mainly developing the KR version, this is what our client is based off of. JP is its own thing and they themselves probably asked for the changes. GF can't just go ahead and say "Ok, we are basing our version off of the JP version!", that's simply not how things work :') But Gameforge can indeed ask Liongames, the developer, if changes can be made. But for that to happen, you need to give them solid arguments as to why they should be requesting these changes. I am not saying "omg yall so spoiled", because honestly, making the game easier benefits me too, I'm all for it, but if people just whine without bringing up any arguments, then how is Gameforge supposed to be able to gauge if they should really request some adjustments or not?


    I hope you get what I'm trying to say .-.

    Quote from Asynja

    But, OP, the question is, how many of the non-JP players can actually speak JP? Fortunately, this game doesn't really require strategy to kill bosses or coordination like BnS, WoW, etc. so you can go a long time, or forever, without saying a single word to another human being. But the point of MMORPGs is the social part, the human interaction, without which there's no point.

    There are a ton of English speaking players on the JP servers. Where do you think most of us were playing before this English version came out? lol


    I've already returned to the JP servers - it's so much better.


    But I will keep this version installed for translation purposes for items - it is handy for that at least.

    Well if you're saying the same thing as me then I'm not sure why you worded your reply that way. In fact what I said in my reply to you is almost a copy and paste of my original post where I questioned why follow a dead server (KR) when we can follow JP's version. If JP can request these changes, then so can we.

    Edited once, last by Critic ().

    It sounds very plausible that there is no involvement(or very little) from the JP publisher side of things.

    So gameforge signed a contract with LionGames and are provided with everything "as is" from their side and any alterations they would want they would have to make for themselves such as translations which they did make! We don't know what kind of internal debates took place but from the results we see they've either not talked much about how JP runs the game(if at all) or decided that the original designs and balance are just fine, which is fair.


    If this is the real scenario it's rather inappropriate to crucify gameforge over the differences between our version and JP

    Because they might not even know about them, or know if the alterations proved good or bad, or maybe they don't find it appropriate mimicking other publishers.


    It could be the JP publisher wants nothing to do with Gameforge, be it sharing game design or voiceovers, or simply demanding a lot of money for their alterations, but the reality is probably Gameforge has not reached out because they just aren't interested in partnerships that could complicate things, or they just they haven't felt a need for their changes.


    I don't know how populated the game is in JP is compared to KR but people also have to remember these are wildy different audiences when it comes to the gameindustry, and the differences in design aren't necessarily directly related to how big their playerbases are, some games just end up more popular in some countries then others.

    Your argument makes no sense. Why would LionGames make a different version of their own game for JP if JP didn't request those changes. They just like wasting their own resources for the sake of it??


    And who cares if JP's publisher wants nothing to do with GameForge? That comment makes even less sense. GameForge doesn't need JP's publisher to make the changes, they only need LionGames to make the changes.

    Quote from Critic

    Your argument makes no sense. Why would LionGames make a different version of their own game for JP if JP didn't request those changes. They just like wasting their own resources for the sake of it??


    And who cares if JP's publisher wants nothing to do with GameForge? That comment doesn't even make sense. GameForge doesn't need JP's publisher to make the changes, they need LionGames to make the changes.

    We can only speculate, but it is more likely that the JP publisher has made these alterations themselves and not LionGames.

    I find it very unlikely they would call LionGames tech support for every little alterations they would want.


    They've already told us we can't have voice overs from JP, it's a legality issue. They can't just add them if they want to.

    Quote from threea

    Will we ever get the Japanese voice overs if not are we allowed to modify the client by ourselves?

    We are currently not planning on offering the Japanese voice overs. They are created by a different publisher and we don’t have the license to use them.

    You're comparing apples and oranges. Voice overs are usually done by the publishers, yes. That would be part of localization changes which are often done by the publisher.


    But we're talking about in-game changes here. If LionGames provide publishers the means to change in-game things like material costs, then GameForge would have access to it too. On the other hand, if LionGames made the changes for JP, then they can make the same changes for GameForge as well.


    No matter how you look at it, there's no need for JP's publishers approval for any of the changes listed on this thread.

    Edited 3 times, last by Critic ().

    History

    2017.09 'SoulWorker' service in Taiwan
    2017.01 'SoulWorker' service in Korea
    2016.12 'SoulWorker' 1st close-beta test in Korea
    2016.04 'SoulWorker' service in Japan
    2015.12 'SoulWorker' 2nd close-beta test in Japan
    2015.08 'SoulWorker' 1st close-beta test in Japan
    2015.07 'SoulWorker' world premier test in Japan
    2011.07 Established “LIONGAMES Co., Ltd.”

    Well... is THIS mean that first release was in JP not in KR?)))

    Quote from DenBS

    History

    2017.09 'SoulWorker' service in Taiwan
    2017.01 'SoulWorker' service in Korea
    2016.12 'SoulWorker' 1st close-beta test in Korea
    2016.04 'SoulWorker' service in Japan
    2015.12 'SoulWorker' 2nd close-beta test in Japan
    2015.08 'SoulWorker' 1st close-beta test in Japan
    2015.07 'SoulWorker' world premier test in Japan
    2011.07 Established “LIONGAMES Co., Ltd.”

    Well... is THIS mean that first release was in JP not in KR?)))

    Yes, almost everyone knows that. But the original server is still the KR one, since Lion games is a KR company. Also the KR version is now ahead in terms of update even if it came out later

    10. Brooches are tradable whether you buy them from the premium shop or receive them as login reward. Here they aren't tradable and you get 1 of each a month. There are 15~ types of each brooch and 3 rarities but the useful ones are maximum 3. It makes me fell like Gameforge wants us to buy SC purposely


    11. The favorability system is available and gives substantial benefits. I made an explanation of it here already so if you don't know what it does go read that post.


    12. My room function (achievement/plant purpose only, at least for me)


    As for n.9, the login is indeed for each character but the bank isn't account shared so most of the untradable useful items can't be shared to your main character

    Quote from Ordo_Hermeticus

    Are Brooche Punchers tradable on the other servers? Just want to know this, since if they are and on our servers are not, that's forcing people to actually buy them.

    Brooch punchers aren't tradable on JP (can't say anything about KR/TW since I didn't play there) but you receive them on your 24th login reward each month (actually 28 days instead of 30/31) or you can buy them for the premium shop (there actually was a function on JP where you can gift items even if they aren't tradable so you can use in game currency to buy them freely. Since the shop overlay changed I didn't know where to check if it was still there but someone told me it still exists)

    Quote from MashMash

    There are a ton of English speaking players on the JP servers. Where do you think most of us were playing before this English version came out? lol


    I've already returned to the JP servers - it's so much better.


    But I will keep this version installed for translation purposes for items - it is handy for that at least.

    Why don't you start learning JP instead? You do something productive that way, and since it's a game you'll be motivated and it's faster. Start by learning the syllabaries hiragana and katakana.

    For what I can see, no matter how I look at it, europeans have always been taken for the goose that lays golden eggs.

    It is almost like they speculate on whales who throw their money away to compensate the lack of furniture... in other words, items offered to players in order to build a customer loyalty.


    Of course we are still in beta and it may change, but don't be fooled, it will never be as good as Soul Worker Japan, we are numbers in Europe, not players.

    Edited once, last by coldZou: (Grammar) ().

    You people aren't understanding some crucial lines of reasoning here.


    First, the Gameforge version of this game should be treated as unique and standalone. We should not be drawing ANY comparisons to the other servers at all in that sense. However, if we insist upon doing so, saying things like "JP server has less crafting material requirements" can be equally countered by "KR version has more crafting requirements".


    So then to justify your desire to follow the easier, more freebie distributing version of JP, you decide to refer to the success of the JP version over KR. But there is absolutely no evidence provided by anyone that the reason for KR not doing well is because of worse login rewards and higher crafting reqs. In fact, there is much more reasoning pointing to it being because SEGA is a piece of soggy garbage, and because of the lack of hype during KR release.


    I have large stacks of inferior brooch transmitters and 3 superior brooches sitting in my inventory. They are being distributed for free even in our version through login rewards and quests. In the first place brooches are not a gamechanging feature, just a little something extra for the min-maxers.


    Login rewards, crafting requirements for cosmetic items? These do not give whales an advantage over free players. If you guys wanna complain that you aren't getting as much free stuff as JP, then realize how entitled you sound. It sounds like kids crying cause their parents won't buy them the cool new game that their friends have.

    Should not be drawing any comparisons? Seriously?

    It's like

    " - Hey, why that apple is more delicious than mine?

    - Just shut up and eat this piece of shit, you shouldn't look at other apples at all.

    "

    And that stuff like XP books? Way more priced shop? Nothing at all?


    Don't you see the whole point of this comparison?

    It's not just complaining "I wanna get more free stuff", it shows that we here threatened in a much worse way than JP players.

    No one's telling you to "shut up and eat a piece of shit". But going along with your analogy, what you should be complaining about isn't "The other guy's apple is better than mine", you should be suggesting that "this apple is bad because it's been laying around for a while, can I get a better one?". Note that you're not going to ask for the other guy's apple. You're asking for a different one that's better than the one you currently have.

    The key is to complain about our version without drawing comparisons to other servers.
    - Can we get lower crafting costs? vs OMG JP HAS LOWER CRAFTING COSTS WTF
    - Our cash shop is a bit expensive for certain items, a lot more people would buy hairstyles if they were cheaper. VS LOL P2W CASH SHOP OTHER SERVERS ARE CHEAPER.

    Can you complain to GameForge? Absolutely, and you should. I will never defend high prices in a cash shop. Does that mean you should compare to other servers the entire time and sound like a whiny child while doing so? No. That won't get you anywhere.


    And since I know someone out there is gonna jump on this and say "but you compare to KR all the time!": All I've done is clear up the misconceptions regarding crafting costs, since people believe KR has JP's costs when they actually have the same ones we do. Similarly for the whole debacle around which server is the original one. That is all.

    I think comparisons are good, if we can take the good things from JP version and the good things from KR version, we can make a really good unique version of our own.


    I dont think people here are saying that we should copy JP version from A to Z but to take the good things they have and try to have them here since it will help the game get a stable community and not 1k people playing in peaks.


    At least that is what i think

    Btw, this comparison was created to let players know about different approaches here and there. It's all my intentions. Players must understand that GF can change a lot of things, that publisher is not only doing a translation and that JP publisher is doing everything in a much better way.

    Quote

    Plese, consider this topic as created for INFO purposes and all of the conclusions are IMHO.