THe leveling grind will kill this game in less than a year if something doesn't change.

Quote from Segovax

All of you missed the point when he wrote about the "6 months down the line". He's not talking about someone that have been playing for 6 months, but some new player that just realized this game exists in September 2018! He will find it will be hard to level up without a group to do Manics, because the game lost the "fotm" playerbase, and the regulars are enjoying the endgame without even setting foot in the lower-level dungeons. I think that the devs might be aware of this and lower the difficulty/increase xp by then.

Ofc now wouldn't be the best time, as there are still many players leveling or trying other characters.

Well you can grind exp by exiting at the boss for maniac difficulty but I agree it will be slightly difficult for new players later down the line. Maybe they will make it so if you run a dungeon that is 10 levels or more lower than your current level it will make it so that it will cost you nothing to run it or something. Like if you are level 50 it wouldn't cost energy to run the dungeon where the mobs are level 40 and etc..

Quote from Mostein

Quote from Alzii

Quote from Mostein

Quote from Alzii

I believe they are in that spur of the moment when they are just so upset by how slow leveling can get sometimes.

No. Please read my post.

You're taking me too literally, darling.

Let's start!

1. Everything takes time if you're doing a pick-up group in MMOs, this is a given. I'm assuming you're upset with the current auto-team feature which DOES have a lot of issues with it currently, but that doesn't mean that it's not going to be touched by the developers. We will have to see what treats Lion Games has for us when we get our official release.
2. There is nothing anyone can do to control this. You also have the option of spamming the chat with a leveling party advertisement. It's worth mentioning that there will never be, from my experience, an "everyone is at endgame" as there will always be new players, especially in a Free to Play MMO.
3. I've been leveling with a group of friends (who are casual players, by the way) and we've been going through manic dungeons pretty steadily. One might be more difficult than the other but we're able to clear them pretty consistently, considering we're risking ourselves by using lower stat gear so we can get that juicy EXP boost from armors, which is totally worth it. I don't believe it's impossible but you WILL have to pay attention to the boss and what they do in Manic. It's not like other KRPGS where enemies get a little damage boost and more health, bosses will also have a few added attacks you won't see in Normal or Hard.
4. What does play time have to do with leveling? If you're 6 months in and not "skilled enough" to clear manics (which is, by the way, just learning to avoid boss mechanics as there is no enrage) there are probably still people around your level that need to level up too. I don't see what anyone wouldn't level with you because they somehow knew your playtime unless they're a friend and would probably help you level if they're a good friend.

Fortunately for you I disagree with people who are all about the "no more EZ GAME". I do believe some bosses need to get nerfed (Jokaquin and Nether Keeper) and some need to get buffed (I'm looking at you, Kurisu). We're currently playing on an old Korean build so things we see now won't be the same for long. I want to go back to my previous post where I stated that leveling is 30% of the game's content and there are more about a RPG than leveling or fighting things, not like you'll care so I won't waste my energy typing about it. In fact, some MMOs benefit a lot from their level grind (Hi, Maplestory) and some people love grinding for levels no matter how long it takes while also wishing to learn about the class and do endgame with it on the side.

I love your thesis by the way, It's

Quote from Mostein

Brilliant.

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I am not upset. Stop making random assumptions about me. Also, you are not taking ME literally enough. I am not here to play games and lightly troll the forum. I brought up an issue I find serious, and if you don't want to read my post then please stop wasting my time. I don't have the time or patience to engage in an endless epeen flame-war with some fanboy that doesn't even read what they reply to.

1: Again, I addressed this. I am talking about the shrinking population in lower level content as the game ages, and how that creates LONGER queues, which increases the potential for new player turnover. I am not talking about any technical issues with the current group finder system.

2: Yes there is a way to address this, and I literally tell you what can be done. Increase xp rates, increase quest rewards, make Manic difficulty more forgiving, make normal/hard give MORE xp.

3: You are missing the point (I wonder why...) The point is the only way to quickly clear manics and have a good time is by grouping, and this will not be as easily possible as the game ages. We can enjoy this now because the game is NEW so everyone is leveling, but the current leveling progression is not sustainable in the longterm. Making a change now will leave the game in a much healthier state than if they did it 2 years later when the game basically fell off the Earth and there are only 100 people playing on steam.

4: You completely missed the point here, Jesus Christ. at least TRY comprehend my post, please.

You seem to lack a complete understanding on the subject matter I am bringing up either due to willful ignorance or trolling. Replying to you further is a waste of my time if you won't actually take it seriously.

Also playing an mmo isn't 30% of the experience, for the vast majority of modern mmorpg, it's more like 3% of your experience. Il let you figure out why.

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I'm going to spare you my usual teasing as not to display aggression. I am taking you literally, I just read your post like you asked. If I disagree with you it is not because I am not taking you seriously, I simply disagree with you.

1. I've never witnessed a game have lower population early game. There will always be a continuous flow of new players and semi-veteran players and other max level players wanting to make alts. This is not something in the black and white. There are so many factors as to why someone will do one instance compared to another. This something that is especially difficult to achieve in a free to play MMO where there is never enough "population" in one area. I've been arond the cities and people getting their groups just fine. I have no idea how else I am to explain this to you, it's tiring.
2. The rates are not final and this isn't the current client build. We're also missing a majority of the quests currently.
3. You're missing my point (I wonder why....) The developer made it so that Manics are not simple and easy to clear. It's best you respect that, because they're not going to let you stomp on their science project and take their lunch money. If Manic is easier why bother implementing the other difficulties? Yes, they are difficult to clear right now because as I've stated maybe 3 times in my last reply and this that we're on an old build and things are currently not balanced you'd understand my point.
4. Nice, I'm not even gonna argue with this one here because your response is as comprehensive as your point. (oops, is that being too aggressive?)

I have total understand on the matter, it's not a difficult subject to grasp. If you spend half a year coasting low level areas in a MMO you can see how much life and wonder there is out there and how amazing a community can really be. I am taking it seriously, I ensure you (okay maybe not 100%).

Why do you consider leveling 100% of playing a MMO? Leveling is only temporary process, that's quite obvious for anyone, perhaps you didn't read my statement correctly! I also have no idea what you're rambling about in the last bit of that either. For the vast majority of MMORPGS? This is only one, darling, those others have nothing to do with this one. What's 3% of my experience? Leveling? Then why are you making this thread? This is such a vague statement.

game is fine

Quote from Sinous

game is fine

You're my hero.

Quote from Alzii

1. I've never witnessed a game have lower population early game. There will always be a continuous flow of new players and semi-veteran players and other max level players wanting to make alts. This is not something in the black and white. There are so many factors as to why someone will do one instance compared to another. This something that is especially difficult to achieve in a free to play MMO where there is never enough "population" in one area. I've been arond the cities and people getting their groups just fine. I have no idea how else I am to explain this to you, it's tiring.

Normally i would agree with you but this doesn't hold true for a game like soulwoker. The main reason for this is because there is an energy system in the game this makes less likely a player would go back and help new players out if they don't want to slow their own progress. The system just does not encourage it, eventually new players will find it harder and harder to find groups. As for veterans making alts they would most likely start these alts with an already established group of friends and would not want some new player slowing down their refined leveling process.

Quote from Sinous

game is fine

Quote from Geis

Quote from Alzii

1. I've never witnessed a game have lower population early game. There will always be a continuous flow of new players and semi-veteran players and other max level players wanting to make alts. This is not something in the black and white. There are so many factors as to why someone will do one instance compared to another. This something that is especially difficult to achieve in a free to play MMO where there is never enough "population" in one area. I've been arond the cities and people getting their groups just fine. I have no idea how else I am to explain this to you, it's tiring.

Normally i would agree with you but this doesn't hold true for a game like soulwoker. The main reason for this is because there is an energy system in the game this makes less likely to go back and help new players out if they don't want to slow their own progress. The system just does not encourage it, eventually new players will find it harder and harder to find groups. As for veterans making alts they would most likely start these alts with an already established group of friends and would not want some new player slowing down their refined leveling process.

If you're a higher level player and you want to clear their dungeon they're actually not benefiting at all. I mean you really only see higher level players in low level dungeons on other mmos with level syncing or something similar (I've only seen this in FFXIV). Many other KRPGS don't have a way for high level players to go and benefit lower level players unless it's purely quest clearing or story progress.

Quote from Alzii

Quote from Geis

Quote from Alzii

1. I've never witnessed a game have lower population early game. There will always be a continuous flow of new players and semi-veteran players and other max level players wanting to make alts. This is not something in the black and white. There are so many factors as to why someone will do one instance compared to another. This something that is especially difficult to achieve in a free to play MMO where there is never enough "population" in one area. I've been arond the cities and people getting their groups just fine. I have no idea how else I am to explain this to you, it's tiring.

Normally i would agree with you but this doesn't hold true for a game like soulwoker. The main reason for this is because there is an energy system in the game this makes less likely to go back and help new players out if they don't want to slow their own progress. The system just does not encourage it, eventually new players will find it harder and harder to find groups. As for veterans making alts they would most likely start these alts with an already established group of friends and would not want some new player slowing down their refined leveling process.

If you're a higher level player and you want to clear their dungeon they're actually not benefiting at all. I mean you really only see higher level players in low level dungeons on other mmos with level syncing or something similar (I've only seen this in FFXIV). Many other KRPGS don't have a way for high level players to go and benefit lower level players unless it's purely quest clearing or story progress.

I don't mean someone that is max level or anything like that, i agree that would not benefit anyone. I mean players that happen to be a zone or 2 ahead of someone else, why would you go back to help since you would only hurt your progression.

Edit: In other games you can go back and help someone that is 5-6 level lower then you and still be able to progress your own stuff with no penalty.

Quote from Geis

Quote from Alzii

Quote from Geis

Quote from Alzii

1. I've never witnessed a game have lower population early game. There will always be a continuous flow of new players and semi-veteran players and other max level players wanting to make alts. This is not something in the black and white. There are so many factors as to why someone will do one instance compared to another. This something that is especially difficult to achieve in a free to play MMO where there is never enough "population" in one area. I've been arond the cities and people getting their groups just fine. I have no idea how else I am to explain this to you, it's tiring.

Normally i would agree with you but this doesn't hold true for a game like soulwoker. The main reason for this is because there is an energy system in the game this makes less likely to go back and help new players out if they don't want to slow their own progress. The system just does not encourage it, eventually new players will find it harder and harder to find groups. As for veterans making alts they would most likely start these alts with an already established group of friends and would not want some new player slowing down their refined leveling process.

If you're a higher level player and you want to clear their dungeon they're actually not benefiting at all. I mean you really only see higher level players in low level dungeons on other mmos with level syncing or something similar (I've only seen this in FFXIV). Many other KRPGS don't have a way for high level players to go and benefit lower level players unless it's purely quest clearing or story progress.

I don't mean someone that is max level or anything like that, i agree that would not benefit anyone. I mean players that happen to be a zone or 2 ahead of someone else, why would you go back to help since you would only hurt your progression.

I think if you're a decent enough human being, seeing as EP isn't a huge issue with the new 600 bonus cap and mats that you get free each day, it won't kill you to help more than a few times.

Quote from Alzii

I think if you're a decent enough human being, seeing as EP isn't a huge issue with the new 600 bonus cap and mats that you get free each day, it won't kill you to help more than a few times.

Are you referring to the free 100 energy vitamins? If so why would you waste those on what is most likely an alt just to help someone, maybe if was a guild mate or friend but not some random.

Game is gonna be a wasteland in 2019 regardless if the leveling is easy or hard, if the endgame content gets painfully boring after a few weeks. And the PvP content in this game is the worst I've ever seen in any MMORPG, so PvP people won't stay for long either.

Okay, so... what's the purpose of this thread? Are you hoping for some sort of petiton style movement? Get enough players to agree to it and hope Gameforge notices it?

There is a suggestions section where you can provide feedback on what you think of the exp rates. Though I would wager there's already a similar thread suggesting difficulty be decreased or exp rates be increased.

Many have speculated that the exp curve may be adjusted in the future to better suit the demographic. Gameforge has already tweaked it from other versions, no reason they wouldn't tweak it again later.

This thread as of right now is doing nothing but creating drama and making you sound a bit pretentious with your vast "experience in this industry". Your points have some merit and may have been received better if you weren't presenting it in a condescending manner.

I mean it's pretty obvious it will be changed.

I like the difficulty and the grind early game right now, especially since all the players aren't at end game yet and finding parties is easy.

When the player base goes down and most players are at level 55 content, then yes, EXP rate and difficulty needs to get better otherwise people will just join, get stuck because they can't level up, and just quit the game.

As it is RIGHT NOW I think it's perfectly fine.

Most MMOs with lack of endgame content don't stand the test of time, and even those WITH content struggle, I'm not sure why you think this game would be any different.

EXP rates won't kill this game, you're worried about new people dropping this game in 6 months? Worry about old players dropping this game instead, because the quite literally NOTHING to do when you've got everything you need is very apparent.

Enjoy the game for what it is for now, you'll have some fun in the months to come, but it will be over before you know it and you'll move on to the next MMO, like you've apparently done countless times.

I feel like it should be asked, but what level are you currently Mostein ? I just want to get a sense of how much of the game you've experienced before i ask the potential follow-up question.

man I agree with the OP 100%

I can't phantom how plp find it fun to grind for lvl, it's not like i want to hit endgame lvl fast but i would like to lvl up normally, like every other MMO. The only way you get to endgame in 2 days is if your a "hard core leveling warrior."

Most of us has stuff to do other than leveling hard for 2 days( which will lead to complaints about stamina, i can't even finish my stamina if i want to) you guys who said its easy to reach max lvl in 2 days GG to you, you have the time