THe leveling grind will kill this game in less than a year if something doesn't change.

Come back to this thread and I see:

>the same 3 or so people who have been bitching constantly about this version and wanting it to be like JP everywhere... gasp, agreeing with the op.

>literally everyone else saying they think it’s fine.

“But it’s not about leveling up NOW it’s about the future, think of the children.”

“But wait it’s not about the future anymore because now I’m deciding to give a bunch of suggestions that actually make late/endgame grinding easier too!”

This thread is a joke, time to remove it from my notifications. Holy shit.

Quote from NTR

Come back to this thread and I see:

>the same 3 or so people who have been bitching constantly about this version and wanting it to be like JP everywhere... gasp, agreeing with the op.

>literally everyone else saying they think it’s fine.

“But it’s not about leveling up NOW it’s about the future, think of the children.”

“But wait it’s not about the future anymore because now I’m deciding to give a bunch of suggestions that actually make late/endgame grinding easier too!”

This thread is a joke, time to remove it from my notifications. Holy shit.

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Teach me how Senpai

So far i don't see any problem with exp/difficulty, you can reach 55lvl within a week if you have time. About difficulty, as long as you learn boss attacks you need to be brain dead to die. What's the point in easy mode game where you oneshot everything or spam skills without bothering about evading attacks? So far (47lvl) and i did die maybe 5 times max with Stella/ 5 with Lily (42lvl) while soloing almost everything thanks to everyone being afraid of doing manic with 2-3 players (too lazy to wait for idiots cancelling each time). The only thing i don't like is energy usage, 2-3 hours spamming sectors with reading story included and you need to hunt for mats.

Quote from NTR

Come back to this thread and I see:

>the same 3 or so people who have been bitching constantly about this version and wanting it to be like JP everywhere... gasp, agreeing with the op.

>literally everyone else saying they think it’s fine.

“But it’s not about leveling up NOW it’s about the future, think of the children.”

“But wait it’s not about the future anymore because now I’m deciding to give a bunch of suggestions that actually make late/endgame grinding easier too!”

This thread is a joke, time to remove it from my notifications. Holy shit.

Display More

Everyone says the wrong thing is fine, since they haven't even read the OP.

No wonder you got Trump as president when all you do is reading the heading of everything from news to forum posts.

I think exp gain is fine in Manic, never said anything else about that. The problem is future players won't have people to play Manic with and no supply of gear to do it solo like we could.

At the rate people are leaving this game and the reviews on steam we are lucky this game is alive in 30 days.

Mostly people complaining about the stupid prices with some complaining about leveling, but yes, let's just assume it's all about the leveling.

Everyone keeps saying JP JP JP but hasn't it been said like more times than i can count that it's based off of the KR version?

Is JP version better than KR version? Probably? Is our version based off of JP version? No.

I still find it hilarious that all these random people are saying "Go play JP version, it's better".

Yeah, but it's in jp. I mean sure, there's an english patch. But everything is still mostly jp.

Quote from Nan

I still find it hilarious that all these random people are saying "Go play JP version, it's better".

Yeah, but it's in jp. I mean sure, there's an english patch. But everything is still mostly jp.

Usually I'm not the type to just tell people that complain that a better version is out to fuck off to there but in this case since these guys treat JP version as the second coming or something it's probably better for them.

I'd rather be able to play a stable game before they start tinkering with a bunch of other things and end up making an even bigger pile of shit.

Quote from Komari

Mostly people complaining about the stupid prices with some complaining about leveling, but yes, let's just assume it's all about the leveling.

Please Komari...we are NOT discussing peoples leveling experience NOW in this thread.

For future reference please read the whole thread or at least the OP before you are comment in it, otherwise it is pretty hard to keep the thread going in the right direction.

I brought up Steam reviews since that also effects the supply of new players. If they read that and still starts playing but are met with dead leveling zones and no items to buy so they can play Manic solo, they won't stay for long.

Since Manic is the only way to level effectively atm.

Imaging leveling to 55 by only doing normal/hard.

You have to think about the fact we where a lot of people leveling now during these three weeks. We had people to group with and we have a supply of weapons and armor to buy so we could solo Manic. They won't have that.

Iv heard people on these forums saying the early zone are already deprived of players and its hard to find groups. Imaging in a month or two.

Quote from Mostein

This needs to be done early and will likely be done anyway.

With exp rates so high and quest rewards basically worthless, it forces everyone to hard-grind manic difficulty dungeons to level.

The grind becomes even more tiresome when the difficulty of our version is through the roof in beginner/leveling content, it makes no sense.

The best and easiest way to grind manics is with a group, but this presents a major obstacle that is amplified as the game ages.

1: finding a group takes time in itself, adding to the tedium of leveling content. This will be significantly amplified as the playerbase shrinks and stabilizes at endgame.

2: There will not always be a playerbase in leveling zones TO group with. Right now we enjoy the luxury of hitting the auto group button and having it instantly pop most of the time, but I can tell you from sheer MMO experience, this won't be the case once the playerbase levels out and everyone is at endgame. It will be borderline impossible to find a single other person who happens to be queuing leveling manics.

3: The extra difficulty makes manic extremely hard, draining, and/or impossible for the average/casual player (a.k.a the vast majority). Which increases potential turnover of new Soulworkers.

4: If a new player 6 months after release is not skilled enough/doesn't want to solo grind manic difficulty dungeons, then he is basically screwed and will simply play a better game. Even if he wanted to group, again, there is no one to help him run 3,000 manics to level up.

"Oh mah difficulty, why does everyone want EZ game where you hit the level cap in 5 days?? The difficulty is fine!"

It doesn't matter. Making the leveling experience more palpable = MORE players to play with at end game and support the longevity of the game. Getting to lv55 in 5 days instead of 15 days is irreverent in the long-term life cycle of this game. It doesn't matter how easy or hard the level grind is, if it kills your game....Besides leveling in 10-15 days is not even close to a long grind experience some of you seek. If you actually want to play a real MMO where it takes you months-years to level, then play something along the lines of Maplestory, BDO, or vanilla WoW. You can "grind" forever in those games.

This is why the JP dropped the difficulty and increased xp rates, they did it to retain players and compete with the multitude of online games in their market. We should do something similar NOW while the playerbase is HIGH and the game is still generating buzz. I'm not saying the game has to be as easy as JP version, but we need some changes, big or small, to the difficulty/Xp rates of the leveling content.

Update:

This is a list of things GF can change to improve the experience right now. Most of these are simple and don't require the devs to make new content. I posted it later in the thread so I will just copy/paste it here.

-Improving dungeon clear and quest rewards will greatly make the leveling experience more enjoyable. Have much more of that xp come from questing to reduce the necessary manic grinding.

-Create less of a reliance on grinding manics to gain exp and gear so players will have more options to go about leveling (provide xp through crafting and other non-combat activities, similar to what Guild Wars 2 does).

-Add daily quests which rewards xp that scales with your level and makes you run lower level dungeons, this can help reduce the "theme park" syndrome by giving you a daily incentive to re-visit lower level content, and break up the tedium of spamming one manic 50 times at higher levels.

-Making normal/hard difficulty give decent xp can provide a great alternative for casuals and solo players who don't want to spam 3000 manics to level cap.

-Giving Steel Graves a hefty exp reward and level appropriate gear when you clear a chapter can also be a great source of gear and xp (I honestly don't know if these provide any xp rewards, never payed attention, but Im pretty sure they don't)

-Slightly decrease the difficulty of content below level 15 to be more noob friendly, because...noobs.

-Decrease overall game difficulty and decrease xp required to level to make leveling much quicker and easier for casuals, this is the route the JP version took.

(Again, I have to stress I don't care about the JP version, people are so obsessed with JP. If you criticize anything to do with difficulty/xp or suggest any QoL change to the game, people immediately think you want this game to be a copy/paste of the JP version and they go nuts. Chill. Jesus. I am NOT saying make this version like the JP version so just stop.)

These are all simple solutions they can implement during the BETA phase that will create a much healthier and enjoyable leveling experience.

TL;DR

There is none, read the post please.

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I have played the JP version of this game for ~2 months in the past and in my opinion the game is suffering from a lot of problems too. For dungeons they made it too easy and added a helper system in case you can't find players, which they replace your party members with NPCs. The NPCs were broken being able to tank bosses and mobs for days since they are immortal. The leveling and crafting over there is much easier as well, taking me only ~2 weeks to get to level 60 on Iris doing mostly quests and running around over leveled for my areas since i think the exp rate is significantly higher over there due to seasonal events and weekend bonuses. The problem with the JP version is that once you reach level cap there really isn't much to do except min-maxing stats and wait for the next set of content since this is an episodic type of game. This made the game leaked a lot of players over time, and eventually I quit as well since most of my English guild members are no longer around.

Hello kage

Please, next time use english.

We don't allow other languages in this section.

Regards,

Arp

Quote from Moofie

Quote from Xandorai

Quote from Mostein

This needs to be done early and will likely be done anyway.

With exp rates so high and quest rewards basically worthless, it forces everyone to hard-grind manic difficulty dungeons to level.

The grind becomes even more tiresome when the difficulty of our version is through the roof in beginner/leveling content, it makes no sense.

The best and easiest way to grind manics is with a group, but this presents a major obstacle that is amplified as the game ages.

1: finding a group takes time in itself, adding to the tedium of leveling content. This will be significantly amplified as the playerbase shrinks and stabilizes at endgame.

2: There will not always be a playerbase in leveling zones TO group with. Right now we enjoy the luxury of hitting the auto group button and having it instantly pop most of the time, but I can tell you from sheer MMO experience, this won't be the case once the playerbase levels out and everyone is at endgame. It will be borderline impossible to find a single other person who happens to be queuing leveling manics.

3: The extra difficulty makes manic extremely hard, draining, and/or impossible for the average/casual player (a.k.a the vast majority). Which increases potential turnover of new Soulworkers.

4: If a new player 6 months after release is not skilled enough/doesn't want to solo grind manic difficulty dungeons, then he is basically screwed and will simply play a better game. Even if he wanted to group, again, there is no one to help him run 3,000 manics to level up.

"Oh mah difficulty, why does everyone want EZ game where you hit the level cap in 5 days?? The difficulty is fine!"

It doesn't matter. Making the leveling experience more palpable = MORE players to play with at end game and support the longevity of the game. Getting to lv55 in 5 days instead of 15 days is irreverent in the long-term life cycle of this game. It doesn't matter how easy or hard the level grind is, if it kills your game....Besides leveling in 10-15 days is not even close to a long grind experience some of you seek. If you actually want to play a real MMO where it takes you months-years to level, then play something along the lines of Maplestory, BDO, or vanilla WoW. You can "grind" forever in those games.

This is why the JP dropped the difficulty and increased xp rates, they did it to retain players and compete with the multitude of online games in their market. We should do something similar NOW while the playerbase is HIGH and the game is still generating buzz. I'm not saying the game has to be as easy as JP version, but we need some changes, big or small, to the difficulty/Xp rates of the leveling content.

Update:

This is a list of things GF can change to improve the experience right now. Most of these are simple and don't require the devs to make new content. I posted it later in the thread so I will just copy/paste it here.

-Improving dungeon clear and quest rewards will greatly make the leveling experience more enjoyable. Have much more of that xp come from questing to reduce the necessary manic grinding.

-Create less of a reliance on grinding manics to gain exp and gear so players will have more options to go about leveling (provide xp through crafting and other non-combat activities, similar to what Guild Wars 2 does).

-Add daily quests which rewards xp that scales with your level and makes you run lower level dungeons, this can help reduce the "theme park" syndrome by giving you a daily incentive to re-visit lower level content, and break up the tedium of spamming one manic 50 times at higher levels.

-Making normal/hard difficulty give decent xp can provide a great alternative for casuals and solo players who don't want to spam 3000 manics to level cap.

-Giving Steel Graves a hefty exp reward and level appropriate gear when you clear a chapter can also be a great source of gear and xp (I honestly don't know if these provide any xp rewards, never payed attention, but Im pretty sure they don't)

-Slightly decrease the difficulty of content below level 15 to be more noob friendly, because...noobs.

-Decrease overall game difficulty and decrease xp required to level to make leveling much quicker and easier for casuals, this is the route the JP version took.

(Again, I have to stress I don't care about the JP version, people are so obsessed with JP. If you criticize anything to do with difficulty/xp or suggest any QoL change to the game, people immediately think you want this game to be a copy/paste of the JP version and they go nuts. Chill. Jesus. I am NOT saying make this version like the JP version so just stop.)

These are all simple solutions they can implement during the BETA phase that will create a much healthier and enjoyable leveling experience.

TL;DR

There is none, read the post please.

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Leveling speed is fine. The issue is Energy, and since leveling is linked with Energy, expect no change.

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You take the time to quote his post but you do not read his post, genius right here.

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I read his post, and again, it boils down to the Energy system, not the amount of XP we get from whatever we do. Complaining that Manics are too hard to solo wasn't worth responding too. Story quests usually get you more than 50% of a lvl, but it is the Energy that drains faster than you can gain XP which slows ppl down... so again, nothing is going to change.

Quote from Giftless

Quote from NTR

Come back to this thread and I see:

>the same 3 or so people who have been bitching constantly about this version and wanting it to be like JP everywhere... gasp, agreeing with the op.

>literally everyone else saying they think it’s fine.

“But it’s not about leveling up NOW it’s about the future, think of the children.”

“But wait it’s not about the future anymore because now I’m deciding to give a bunch of suggestions that actually make late/endgame grinding easier too!”

This thread is a joke, time to remove it from my notifications. Holy shit.

Display More

Everyone says the wrong thing is fine, since they haven't even read the OP.

No wonder you got Trump as president when all you do is reading the heading of everything from news to forum posts.

I think exp gain is fine in Manic, never said anything else about that. The problem is future players won't have people to play Manic with and no supply of gear to do it solo like we could.

At the rate people are leaving this game and the reviews on steam we are lucky this game is alive in 30 days.

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Well, we didn't need "best gear" to solo Manic trash mobs... at least I didn't. The bosses are different, but if you're stressing about getting the most XP per Energy you're not killing the Boss. The Manic quests are nice, but you can skip them. I also would like our version to be more like JP, but I believe the OP is inflating the negatives.

Looking up Steam, it's still 74% positiv.

The assumption that everybody will instantly quite because of "empty leveling zones" also surprises me. When I start a new game I normally want to familiarize myself with the game first before going into groups. To be honest I would be really embarrassed going into a group and messing up the controls.

I thinks it's more likely that someone quits because the games does not give him or her the chance to learn it. That doesn't change in groups by the way, I still see people dying although I am healing them.

Cash Shop is probabel more of an issue then leveling, however that also means you need to understand the items in the shop. I really don't see the issues with the EXP. By the time it gets really slow you already deep into the game. If people quit because of that any other reason might have done the same. The game simply didn't click for them.

Quote from Nitros

Looking up Steam, it's still 74% positiv.

I wonder how you look at those reviews. I always check most useful since "game is good" is not a review I take seriously.

Here let me help you out Steam reviews

Why even bother commenting in the thread if you won't even read the first post? Christ, this is why I hate forums sometimes.

I look at the number. The review itself also doesn't matter, it only matters if someone likes the game or not. Given enough votes you get a good idea if you should give the game a try. That being said I compared it to some of the other games listed on Steam, it has about the same rating.

In general I ignore most reviews. If its free I can try the game myself. People love to complain about all possible things I really don't care about. Especially if it's about a cash shop that's out for like a week now. Not a review I take seriously.

Edit: I think I need to say it... Why even bother writing a wall of text if you know people won't read it? You are the one who want's people to read it, if they don't its your fault.

And people are still debating the leveling experience as it is today. THAT IS NOT THE POINT!

Tell me how many Manics did you do solo in the past week?

Well in 6 months time (or less, or more) a new player will get to one of those "you are too low level, git gud" quests and hit the auto team button hundreds of times and maybe find another player to team up. Or spam chat looking for a party to grind levels and no one replies. After a while that said player will ask himself why is he even trying to play this game and move on.

Yes leveling is fine now, but just because there is a population to help it.

It wont last though.

Quote from Nitros

I look at the number. The review itself also doesn't matter, it only matters if someone likes the game or not. Given enough votes you get a good idea if you should give the game a try. That being said I compared it to some of the other games listed on Steam, it has about the same rating.

In general I ignore most reviews. If its free I can try the game myself. People love to complain about all possible things I really don't care about. Especially if it's about a cash shop that's out for like a week now. Not a review I take seriously.

Edit: I think I need to say it... Why even bother writing a wall of text if you know people won't read it? You are the one who want's people to read it, if they don't its your fault.

Ye we are sorry! We forgot the majority of people on this forum are the same people hanging out on Horrible Subs chat.

We will have to think about that in the future and adjust the text mass so it suits their level of intellect. I mean it hard to concentrate for more than 3min reading literally 43 sentences.

Quote from Segovax

Tell me how many Manics did you do solo in the past week?

Quite a few actually. It's fun when there's not a bunch of braindead spamming to the point you can't even see the boss.

Quote from Segovax

Yes leveling is fine now, but just because there is a population to help it.

It wont last though.

And at that point they'll most likely adjust the values then.

Right now there *is* a population though and there *are* people running the dungeons so it's not a problem.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic since BnS did exactly that as the playerbase moved on from older content.