New VIP Memberships PAY2WIN

    I don't really know how you guys are throwing prices around, but for NA you can get the Silver+Gold Package for a minimum of $30 (750SC for $10 + 1800 SC for $20) and you'll have 360 SC leftover. Essentially it's pretty much $1 per day you're investing into the game which isn't too bad for a F2P game. Though when you think about it, this pack isn't really made for casuals who have free time here and there. This is more for players who's got more free time every day and gamers who'll put more time into getting each character max in a shorter amount of time as they'll be utilizing the most out of these packs.


    And sadly I'm a casual player so I can't really utilize it to its fullest. Still, I might buy it because I want to support Soulworker, even it it means only a little.

    Hello

    This is why I don't see it pay 2 win yet

    For the EP you can create another char and grind with it

    +30% dz meh, even if this boost wasn't here they could just sell Cash Shop items to have DZ

    +20% drop chance Ok for this one it will depend how it works

    If for example a rare drop has 10% chance to drop, will they have 30% or 12% ? (additive or multiplicative ?)

    +10 items displayable on market Yeah k, You can still create others accounts if you want to sell more

    No market fees They will have more dz, but again they could just sell items so dz isn't a problem for cash shoppers

    +20% grutins It's shared between all members so it's not a huge advantage



    This game will be a huge pay 2 win if they remove the way to create low levels to grind for akasha/and the item to upgrade our equip


    Remember that in a lot of RPG it is mandatory to upgrade your equip, and protection can be ONLY be purchased with cash shop (or with gold to a cash shopper)


    btw sorry if it's hard to read

    Quote from Alzii

    I just wanna give an update that I kinda regret getting this pack since it gives no EXP boost but hey at least I got this sick ass teleporter.

    It does give you 20 hours worth of battle books if you got the gold package, though. You just have to actually play the game for two hours instead of playing SocialWorker.

    Quote from Lilabelle
    Quote from Alzii

    I just wanna give an update that I kinda regret getting this pack since it gives no EXP boost but hey at least I got this sick ass teleporter.

    It does give you 20 hours worth of battle books if you got the gold package, though. You just have to actually play the game for two hours instead of playing SocialWorker.

    But I wanna make more friends!!! ;( I guess you get 20 hours but it's only 20% so it's not AMAZING, but definitely better than nothing haha. I was kinda hoping for like 30 days of exp :p

    Exactly!

    Quote from PhoenixShi

    For a definition I'd say the best one I can come up with is that pay to win is when the advantages a game offers through the use of real money, or a real money equivalent currency exceeds what you're personally comfortable with. The thing about pay to win though, as that definition indicates, is that it's completely subjective, and as a result, can be heavily influenced by bias. This is why people keep getting into arguments about it, and as it is subjective, it also means while neither side is universally "right," it also means neither side are wrong either.

    They added this VIP Pack with 200 extra EP just because of those people who cried at the first days "Fuck this EP", because they hadn't enough. But once you are at 55 you are getting pretty fast annoyed of getting rid of all your 200-400EP daily(!), because you only do the same boring and easy peasy runs over and over again.. (I already have all towns on 100% and 2 raids on 100%) and 98% of the items you get/grind for are either nothing worth or never worth more than 1-2m, because everyone drops all of these current Blueprints like nothing.. and more than that is not there! There are no really really RARE items to grind. Atm you only grind the easy peasy casual raids to get your craft mats to 400+ and your "endgame" armor blueprints from the casual raids (which you have in 10-20 runs and which are sold for 200-500k from everyone btw [even the weapon bp], yes the "Endgame"/or better said the next upgrade armor for Citadel which is necessary) And all this will also not change when Citadel and Primal is out! All the Blueprints will be dropped again from everyone like nothing and it'll not worth grinding more than once.. you only do it so you have used your daily EP and doesn't waste it.. but doing this tedious shit grind for nothing than just mats for the next shit? Which repeats over and over? The Extra EP is completely unnecessary! And also getting rid of 400-600EP is pretty damn hard sometimes even if you play nonstop!


    And the 1 Hidden Akasha Transmitter is the biggest Hoax I've ever seen... me and my buddy laughed so hard as soon as we saw that! If it were a at least 3-5 Star Hidden Transmitter or something better, fine but .. 2 - 5 Star? You will get 100% shit doesn't matter if it's hidden. Have you ever tried getting a 5 Star card on this version here? You need 200-300 Transmitter to get one(!)..... THIS my friend.. you can call P2W (Oh, and don't forget you need to have multiple 5 Star cards to level one 5 Star card up) f*forge at it's finest

    Edited 4 times, last by scare ().

    Quote from scare

    And the 1 Hidden Akasha Transmitter is the biggest Hoax I've ever seen... me and my buddy laughed so hard as soon as we saw that! If it were a at least 3-5 Star Hidden Transmitter or something better, fine but .. 2 - 5 Star? You will get 100% shit doesn't matter if it's hidden. Have you ever tried getting a 5 Star card on this version here? You need 200-300 Transmitter to get one(!)..... THIS my friend.. you can call P2W (Oh, and don't forget you need to have multiple 5 Star cards to level one 5 Star card up) f*forge at it's finest

    I got Hidden Shade and Skitter from my Haru's first 3 transmitters, talk about p2w

    Quote from scare

    You need 200-300 Transmitter to get one(!).....

    Source or data?


    From my findings and a few friends that have bought/used many transmitters, the rate is far higher than 200 per 1 5 star. I personally have 3 from less than 150, another friend of my got his third in around 150.


    Granted, these rates still aren't good but spreading baseless values like that doesn't really help anybody. Anecdotal information is unreliable no matter where it comes from. From the other thread about Akasha rates, it seems pretty standard for people to get 1 5 star per 50 to 100 transmitters, making it around a 1-2% chance.


    Maybe Raven has data on rates?

    1 per 50 to 100 sounds good, but it's all RNG. I've received 2 of them in one 10 pack, while not getting one in 100.


    I will say it took a bit over 1k packs to max out Plastica and Grutin. Maybe I was (Un)lucky.

    oh_i_get_it_fight_club.gif

    Souce? I opened about 750 and only got 3x 5 Star cards.. have fun opening or maxing 5 Star cards as a F2P player.

    Quote from scare

    They added this VIP Pack with 200 extra EP just because of those people who cried at the first days "Fuck this EP", because they hadn't enough. But once you are at 55 you are getting pretty fast annoyed of getting rid of all your 200-400EP daily(!), because you only do the same boring and easy peasy runs over and over again.. (I already have all towns on 100% and 2 raids on 100%) and 98% of the items you get/grind for are either nothing worth or never worth more than 1-2m, because everyone drops all of these current Blueprints like nothing.. and more than that is not there! There are no really really RARE items to grind. Atm you only grind the easy peasy casual raids to get your craft mats to 400+ and your "endgame" armor blueprints from the casual raids (which you have in 10-20 runs and which are sold for 200-500k from everyone btw [even the weapon bp], yes the "Endgame"/or better said the next upgrade armor for Citadel which is necessary) And all this will also not change when Citadel and Primal is out! All the Blueprints will be dropped again from everyone like nothing and it'll not worth grinding more than once.. you only do it so you have used your daily EP and doesn't waste it.. but doing this tedious shit grind for nothing than just mats for the next shit? Which repeats over and over? The Extra EP is completely unnecessary! And also getting rid of 400-600EP is pretty damn hard sometimes even if you play nonstop!


    And the 1 Hidden Akasha Transmitter is the biggest Hoax I've ever seen... me and my buddy laughed so hard as soon as we saw that! If it were a at least 3-5 Star Hidden Transmitter or something better, fine but .. 2 - 5 Star? You will get 100% shit doesn't matter if it's hidden. Have you ever tried getting a 5 Star card on this version here? You need 200-300 Transmitter to get one(!)..... THIS my friend.. you can call P2W (Oh, and don't forget you need to have multiple 5 Star cards to level one 5 Star card up) f*forge at it's finest

    I agree that vip is no p2w - however transmitters are not p2w aswell..


    most cards are disabled in pvp - you work together in dungeons - there likely wont be runs where they force you to have all 5star cardsets or whatnot.. if they do you are in the wrong guild.


    The game has absolutely no p2w - since there is nothing to win over... you dont get like gaming laptops or whatever for fastest clear on the server (BDO has those events with highest lvls on new released charr - exp boosts say hello -- DN has speedrun events that favor truedmg sets -- sth like this is yet to come, likely will come at one point or another, yet not now) , you dont get a best list in pvp, you dont need full +9 gears for anything (i can run primal on +4-6 in japan.. it takes longer and you will have to dodge more, but its possible)

    Most 5star cards are worse than 2star card passives (a lot of 2star are staple) - you are not forced to run 4star best in slot dps card (the best is 4star not 5star alright)


    If you think you need to have the best of the best.. grind for a long time or invest some money.. but this doesnt make you "win". In pve there is nothing to win over others that can do the same content and - as you already said - drop the same materials or buy them.

    Even if they sold gear in the cashshop it would mean nothing.. it would outvalue the dungeons and the point of playing - yet it would still not be p2w in a pve game.

    PvP is rarely done, japan even has it disabled.


    Beating dungeons faster is.. not rly p2w, its buying a handycap to require slightly less skill to play by making fights a little bit easier (1 minute of a dungeon less maybe)


    if you could buy 3-5 star transmitters right away (which you were able to in japan/Korea) its more advantage towards ppl that buy them, yet still not p2w - thank you gameforge for not having those for now

    You just gotta get lucky. Get those sick SoulSanctum pages from grutins~

    the only thing really worth the money would be the Item Drop Rate(and maybe Energy, if you are a nolifer)


    for that to pay 15-30 Bucks... nah mate, I rather farm ingame gold buy it and save it for leveling Jin, with the exp boost you get.


    Also since people can sell it to you, just grind couple days for it.


    I know a lot of people probably already made most of these points. I mean look at the 7 pages. If none of the things I stated were mentioned before, I would consider this community to be absolutly out of the sphere of common reason and reality. But hey I wouldn't really bet against it... games like these do tend to bring out the weirdest people out of their basements.


    Now, if you will excuse me, I've a meeting with my therapist... need to get this urge of killing stupid people out of my system smh

    ~Let it Reap~

    :/

    Quote from scare

    Souce? I opened about 750 and only got 3x 5 Star cards.. have fun opening or maxing 5 Star cards as a F2P player.

    A single source of anecdotal evidence is not sufficient proof. It requires evidence from many people and many sources before it can be considered true data. So far, although the sample size is small, the average appears to be 1 per 50-100. If you got 1 per 250 you're simply an outlier who got unlucky.


    On another note, it turns out you don't need to have OR max 5 star cards in order to beat the pve content in this game. Funny thought, eh.