Soulworker EU/NA is now live! Let's talk some important aspects of the current game. Help decide the future!

Yeah, don't expect people to carefully read this. I sure didn't. I'll make it short:

• What do you get for leveling up faster with the current content available?
• A normal game nowadays cost ~60€. That's about three costume sets. You need very good RPG to last you 80 hours. Most I played took like 40. So are 3 costumes for 40 hours enough? For me one already would last 40 hours.

Quote from EnVysion

I wasn’t there at the EU/NA open beta start, but it is said that the EXP rates in the start were ok, actually double than now. After a few days or a week, Gameforge took the liberty of halving the EXP rates. Reasons behind it?

No idea who told you that but it's wrong, exp-rates where like this from the start. Apart from that, up to Ruin Fortress you only have to run the last dungeon EP 4 between 2-4 times to reach the next level wich you probably should consider doing anyways for loot.

As for cosmetics, the only thing I'd like to see changed would be to be able to buy costume-pieces seperately instead of only as a set. Everything else seems fine to me, granted it's from the perspective of an EU-Player so exchange-rates favor me here.

1. On EXP rates, ours are apparently more forgiving compared to JP or KR.
   1. When did Gameforge halve EXP, do you have a source regarding this?
   2. EXP from monsters is the second-highest form of EXP gain in this game, first is questing. The EXP boosts are actually quite handy when you need to catch up to a higher level friend too.
   3. Dungeon crawlers normally do not have a huge endgame scene, and normally have a longer leveling progression than open world MMOS.
   4. Use your books wisely, if you know you're not going to endlessly grind for 1 hour then don't use it.
   5. Leveling shouldn't be difficult, but it shouldn't be too easy either.. Games where the leveling is a joke tend to kill the enjoyment early on (do these exist?).
   6. Yeah, I don't play this game 24/7 and typically only play for about a max of 12 hours every so often. Most of the time I'm chatting, hanging out, etc in between leveling and quests.
   7. I'm currently leveling all characters, a few people I know already have level 55 in all their characters.
   8. The rankings' bonus EXP are incentives for people who like leveling alts to keep playing their main as well. This causes your playtime to be more paced on all characters meaning you will have more to do for much longer. If you like having your ego boosted by meager things such as rank in a PvE game for EXP, that's cool too.
2. On your statement of cosmetic prices
   1. Other games were worse, and the prices we pay right now was the same amount just so you could own said costume for a limited time. If you wanted it permanent, you pay double.
   2. It's quite entitled to think you can get 6 costumes for your characters for cheap. I mean, that aside running a game let alone hosting servers is probably more expensive than you're thinking of.
      https://www.quora.com/What-are…nning-a-server-for-an-MMO
      https://www.reddit.com/r/gamin…rvers-iaas-vs-on-premise/
      etc
      Regardless, I think you can live with a few costumes at a time. It won't kill you to wait and get a paycheck or whatever for your next costume.
   3. Account-wide costumes at $20? You're asking for an arm and a leg here, especially since you think Gameforge will be willing to take such a suggestion, much less any other publisher or developer.
   4. There are 3 skin colors, it is unlikely you will wish to posses them all and I rarely switch between 2 of the 3. If you're not a fashion maniac like me you won't be constantly buying hair colors and styles, and I can speak because I, again, do not switch between them very often since I have comfort zones for these kinds of things. And for eye color, it's a reasonable price.
      

   

   
   

   
   

My main issue was forced team gameplay with players being punished for doing solo runs: Takes longer, it's harder (Let me add that for some people so no one gets triggered) and exp and drop rate are lower.

Aside from that there's some small details that tick me off like exp buffs running out the entire time on the background, can only sell or dismantle 10 at the time, changing channels for parties, etc.

Actually add one more issue to my list not being able to freely use all my costume emotes and that's a crime against humanity.

Quote from Alzii

Dungeon crawlers normally do not have a huge endgame scene, and normally have a longer leveling progression than open world MMOS.

wait i find this the opposite LOL

But yeah mostly agree. This game is more like Super Smash Bros combined with traditional RPG elements like leveling/gear progression. You are not meant to play it solo all the time, even though you can.

Glad you can buy costumes off MP, there are some games that don't let you

What's changing channel for party for? A friend and I tested auto-team across different channels and it still put us together

Quote from EnVysion

There have been several statements, but you can check the most helpful (negative)review on steam which apparently comes from someone who actually played on JP. There is no evidence that we have better XP rates here, so if you find such a thing, please share with us

Your biggest mistake was trusting a review from steam.

inb4 I highly believe that newbies need better starting gear so they don't get blasted out the face of the Earth when they try manic for the 1st time. Also the 500 HP pots should be turned into 1k HP pots and you should receive a full stack of them at lv1.

Quote from EnVysion

I'm only trying to gather facts. My point here is not to discredit anyone. But after over 200 hours spent with the game this is the sentiment that I (and some others I know) have. Current "endgame" is not worth the time investment.

Leveling alts should be fun, but instead it's extremely tedious. The only way to alleviate that is to grind for a huge amount of time on your main character and/or buy inefficient battlebooks for real money. Or have a constant party of people playing together leisurely - which unfortunately most won''t have.

Reviews are opinions, not facts.

Quote from EnVysion

I'nd the funny thing is that the point of this game, is not really leveling. There is 0 social interaction in auto-teams and most of the time you're forced to grind solo because you can't find parties. You cannot have higher level friends play with you because you would get half XP, so it's not worth it. Having more characters at level max would allow me for example to play more, alternate farm between characters to alleviate the boredom of the grind. But I'd rather switch my hopes towards waiting for extra XP events, if we'll ever see them here

If you're going to expect social interaction in a pick-up group in ANY mmo, you are mistaken. If you want to interact socially, go out and actually talk to people and engage them. You''ll have a lot of time to do it between leveling breaks. If you want higher levels to oneshot mobs for you while you do nothing then you're not playing the game, it's a hard truth but that's how it is in a lot of MMOs. Not a lot of them will sync levels so people can level with someone else.

If you have trouble grinding solo, try learning more about your character and becoming more efficient with them. It will help you out a ton in later levels! If you are above or under 9 levels you will not get any EXP from going with friends, keep that in mind. Right now I'm leveling alts fine solo! Learning more about the game and slowing down the pace you fight in dungeons will improve your judgement on enemies. It's an interesting experience, really.

Quote from EnVysion

If you guys are fine with the XP rates and Cosmetic rates, that is fine. Like I said, you will drive the future of this game. While I've spent some money on the game so far I don't see myself doing that again. I'd rather pay a monthly fee knowing that I can enjoy all the content instead of knowing that if I don't spend hundreds of $$$ my characters will sit in their crappy, free and limited costumes.

Nothing good's ever free in life. I mean, some things are, but usually the things you want will cost you money.

I don't about know for people who plays in JP server but I play KR server. The EXP you get in NA server from dungeons/Mazes are somewhere between 40-50% of the EXP you get in KR server from dungeons/mazes.

You can level from 1-55 for 2-3 days in KR server, the only downside is it's harder to complete the town progression in KR server.

Quote from EnVysion

Hey Everyone,

Let's start this on a positive note. First of all, thanks to Gameforge for bringing Soulworker to EU & NA - without them we would not be able to experience this game in our territories Also, congratulations on the live launch! While for us (the players) this doesn't mean anything new in terms of content, it's a form of reassurement that GF is able to start working on delivering the eagerly awaited content - there's a lot of awesome stuff to come, and well... rookie raids just don't cut it anymore.

This is not intended as a "suggestion" thread - there are many of you who made wonderful suggestions over there, and I hope we will see some of those improvements in the game at some point. Instead I want this to be focused on 2 very important aspects of the game so far (leaving content aside which everybody including GF knows it’s direly needed).

#1 - EXP rates

The adopted version for EU/NA is one of the early Korean ones. It is widely known that Korean games are based on grinding (doing the same thing over and over until your soul starts screaming at yourself). That may be fine for them, but we’re a different audience.

I wasn’t there at the EU/NA open beta start, but it is said that the EXP rates in the start were ok, actually double than now. After a few days or a week, Gameforge took the liberty of halving the EXP rates. Reasons behind it? I can only think of two:

- Limit player progression, as currently there is not much endgame content

- Introduce XP Battle books which increase your XP gain, purchasable with real money

While I can somehow understand the first part, the second one is a terrible decision in my opinion.

“BUT THEY NEED TO MAKE SOME MONEY OUT OF THE GAME, RIGHT ?” – Sure they do. But not by providing you with a miserable experience just to feel *forced* to buy it. Besides those XP Battlebooks are very inefficient:

- Buff duration is 1 hour and only applies on monster kills

- You can only pause the buffs by logging out (in case you want to take a break or something happens)

- Just by logging back in, you lose at least ~30 seconds of the buff (using SSD, but buff starts running again from the moment you click “start” for your character). Let’s not mention if you need to run around to deliver quests or even loading screens on a slower computer.

So every second that you’re not actively killing monsters is time lost on your buff. Not a good deal if you ask me. You should not be pressured this much. And well, you aren’t, if you’re willing to throw a lot of money out of the window.

Before anyone jumps with snappy remarks like “leveling should be hard, you should spend 7-8 months of your life just to reach maximum level like in Lineage 2” – please don’t – unnecessary grinding and time wasting is just a lame excuse from the developers for not being able to create meaningful content. Go back to the 2000’s or move to Korea if you feel the need to waste hundreds of hours of your life for something with so little meaning. I don’t mind grinding, I just don’t like wasting double the time on something or be forced to pay myself out.

*Most* people saying “current XP rates are fine” are the ones that:

- Spend a lot of hours per day on the game (5-10 +)

- Didn’t spend a dime on the game, and most likely don’t plan to

- Are mainly playing one character. As someone who’d like to level up all characters (and that’s just leveling up, without farming endgame for gear which will take a whole lot more) I wouldn’t enjoy spending dozens of hours just to do that.

But the Rank buff will help your alts! Very true, let’s see how long it will take to do that once you reach 55 with some basic math. These are the rank requirements (our version is based on Korea so numbers are the same so far):

Rank				Korea:
				next rank	total points	rank bonus
Beginner D				1,304,818,075	0	5% exp
Beginner C				1,423,437,900	1,304,818,075	10% exp
Beginner B				1,542,057,725	2,728,255,975	20% exp
Beginner A				1,660,677,550	4,270,313,700	40% exp

Assuming you have some decent 55 gear and are able to farm 5 million XP / 10 mins (or 30 mill/hour) which is a nice average if you are *speed farming with good rank results and some xp gear*, it would take you:

- 43.4 hours to reach Rank Novice C

- 47.4 hours to reach Rank Novice B

- 51.4 hours to reach Rank Novice A

Total to reach Rank Novice A - ~142 hours of farming getting the above XP/hour (don't forget the daily energy limitation). Getting less XP per hour will result in significantly increased time to achieve this.

In order to halve this time, you would need to buy at least 71 battlebooks with 100%xp gain (valued at around 3 euros/dollars each) which you bring you at a cost of 213 euros/dollars.

And this is just to get 40% bonus buff for leveling your alts. While there doesn’t seem to be any more useful rewards above this rank, and might be just cosmetic I’ll just leave this here:

*Highest Rank, Master A will need 45B XP to reach, so around 10 times more than Novice A. But that’s not too important, it’s just a mark for someone who invested farming 1.5k hours in the game. We might get more XP gains later on, sure, but well this is how it is right now.

#2 Cosmetic Prices

Leaving aside the mobile “energy based model”, by locking the hairstyles and costumes to individual characters the game is designed to either:

- Make you spend huge amounts of real money

- Make you want to contact the friendly dzenai farmers in Rucco Town

- Just feel bad that you’ll be stuck wearing shitty costumes/hairstyles on your characters and move to a different game.

My point here, is that this is a major rip-off. This is the same mistake Blade&Soul did before finally making changes to how costumes work.

My thoughts:

- Costumes at their current prices (20 $ each) should be account wide. Paying 120$ to get the same costume for all your 6 characters is a major spit in the face. How many costumes are in the game? Dozens? And this is without purchasing things like VIP/special packs/other items from the store.

- Further appearance customization for your characters is absurd. 4$ haircut, 4$ hair color, 4$skin color, 4$ eye color – that’s 16$ just for some appearance tweaks for ONE character, that you can’t even preview (for some reason Gameforge provides tiny pics in their shop while Korea offers fully fledged 3D character previewer). I know they’ve just reduced prices on these, but the value is still pretty bad. Good luck getting them in the ingame market, where there are barely some of them sold.

So feel free to comment on how you feel about these – just think well so you don’t regret it later on.

And if you managed to read everything – congratz -> ***You are awesome!!!***

Thanks for reading and keeping up a constructive discussion.

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Hey look, I could probably spend countless hours just talking about Cash Shops in general, Free to Play games and all things of sorts, but I do feel like that you kind of need to draw a line the moment you realize we're in 2018 and some people still don't fully understand Business Models around the genre and can't cope with what they're offered, so I'll try to keep it as simple as I can.

First of all, when you talk about XP Rates, you're basically saying that those who don't invest enough time or money into the game feel underwhelmingly unrewarded and unable to progress with ease because it feels slow, the party system is clunky and playing solo is not worth the hassle so you long for an XP rework in order to have a more enjoyable experience.

All things considered, getting more XP is dope, you progress much faster and that's cool, but that's not healthy for the current state of the game. Mechanically speaking, Soul Worker allows different manouvers around XP bonuses so that you can progress faster and that's:

• - XP % Bonus Boost on Books ($)
  
• - XP % Bonus Boost on Gear
• - XP % Bonus Boost on Titles
• - XP % Bonus Boost on Parties
• - XP % Bonus Boost on stacking 55s

If it weren't for these, then I'd say you're 100% right about what you're saying; But you said you've played 200+ hours so I'm assuming you know your fair share and that you're accustomed to the leveling methodology in Soul Worker, thus I can go straight to the point. On the early patches of Western ports of Eastern RPGs, especially for Dungeon Crawlers, keeping as much distance as possible from the Cap is the best way to have a much better scenario in future patches where progressing will eventually feel much smoother and more rewarding. You want to avoid having people blasting their way through new dungeons because they've had enough time in their hands to completely get the best of their characters at 100%. You want them to go slowly to keep things fresh and that's just how it is. Right now, the game is literally castrated and you have to bear with it until future patches will heal the uneasiness you feel when you're hit with boredom trying to get all your characters in a good spot. Trust me, it's sadder to see people hitting the end game and quitting the game until new content is released, than seeing people struggle with low XP Rates.

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I don't want to go too deep into the Cash Shop thing, but I can tell you that the reason I said you don't get the BM right is because you don't see it at 360°. For example, you haven't talked about the fact that people can actually sell Premium Outfits in the Market. Do you have any idea what would happen if those outfits would cost any less? Either you'd have to forbid the players from selling Premium content into the shop and lowering the prices, or you'd have to get even HIGHER prices and deal with an unavoidable bad inflation which would damage those who don't spend any money on the game, who also tend to be the most dedicated bunch. Atleast, this is my 2 cents on the entire post.

Quote from EnVysion

Further appearance customization for your characters is absurd. 4$ haircut, 4$ hair color, 4$skin color, 4$ eye color – that’s 16$ just for some appearance tweaks for ONE character, that you can’t even preview

I've honestly seen worse that these prices, and to be completely fair, again, take into account what would happen in the in-game market if those prices were to be any lower.

Quote from EnVysion

#2 Cosmetic Prices
Leaving aside the mobile “energy based model”, by locking the hairstyles and costumes to individual characters the game is designed to either:
- Make you spend huge amounts of real money

- Make you want to contact the friendly dzenai farmers in Rucco Town

- Just feel bad that you’ll be stuck wearing shitty costumes/hairstyles on your characters and move to a different game.

1. Having character locked outfits makes sense the moment you have an in-built fashion crafting system.
2. I honestly don't think the basic fashion items that you get are that bad, there are some great combinations you can play with, and it's coming from a designer who has a knack for these things.

People nowadays just want spoon feeding. This is the game that shines coz of the “game flaws” if can’t accept the things that u dont want about this game and comparing fom jp and kr servers (well u have option to play there why are u here?) u can just leave and Alzii is right u were poison by the steam reviews. (And i love Alzii ) I dont know why most of the people here in forums are so negative about this game hahaha. EnVysion

Quote from qaswed5194

I don't about know for people who plays in JP server but I play KR server. The EXP you get in NA server from dungeons/Mazes are somewhere between 40-50% of the EXP you get in KR server from dungeons/mazes.

You can level from 1-55 for 2-3 days in KR server, the only downside is it's harder to complete the town progression in KR server.

You are comparing different versions. Like a 1.4 to a 2.8. KR has a higher level cap, we probably get the same EXP tables later.

Also F2P is a very diverse topic. There a games exploiting whales and there as those that don't. There are even games where the whales are beneficial as they create a challenge.

Quote from Nitros

You are comparing different versions. Like a 1.4 to a 2.8. KR has a higher level cap, we probably get the same EXP tables later.

Also F2P is a very diverse topic. There a games exploiting whales and there as those that don't. There are even games where the whales are beneficial as they create a challenge.

This is true people are comparing SW here from kr or jp that's the reason why i dont get people are ranting too much.

Quote from Nitros

You are comparing different versions. Like a 1.4 to a 2.8. KR has a higher level cap, we probably get the same EXP tables later.

We know that. The question is whether they will change it or not in the future. E.g. Blade&Soul KR exp cap is half of the NA version exp cap.

BUT it's still the KR ones that get to decide whether we get it or not.

A few things that I feel like commenting on. First, Soulbound = account bound, while storing not possible = character bound, most items are marked Soulbound, not storing not possible, so if you have multiple Stella characters, they can share all your Stella stuff, and everyone on your account can share your generic equipment. Usually in this genre of games, each base character type, will have multiple sub-character types, each using a different weapon type, so if you got a costume for one base character type, they could all use them.

Next, people need to stop trying to compare apples, and oranges. Blade & Soul is not the same type of game as SoulWorker at all, and is rather alt unfriendly, while this type of game is quite alt friendly. Then while in the NA/EU release of B&S, they did make many costumes account bound, keeping in line with its alt unfriendly nature, you need get another cash shop item each time you transfer them.

A better comparison would be with C9 (Continent of the Ninth Seal), where both SoulWorker, and C9 are of the same genre, 3D games, plus they both use the same system with costumes where they come in multiple parts, are completely cosmetic, and you can add bonuses by socketting items into your costumes. Then costumes in C9 are permanently unbound, while here they are account bound on equip, and C9 does use the system of base character types having multiple sub-character types, which gives more value to items, like costumes, that can be shared by the same base character type. Although in C9, outside of maybe the odd exception, all costume sets have a cost of just shy of $7 US, as opposed to the about $20-$50 US price tag here, with most being in the around $30-$50 US range. With the price of costumes in C9, I don't even need to think about it much, if I see one I like, I buy it, then if I like two coloured options of the same design, I just get both, as a result, I have some 20+ purchased costume sets in C9. Here, at these prices, I won't buy any from the cash shop, I may buy them from others, in the market, but especially due to their account bound on equip nature, and price, you have to know that in time, not too many costumes will be seen in the market any more.