(NA)Can we do something about Weapon Upgrade Chips?

    The prices of these chips are getting out of hand. And the market for it is too easily manipulated for such a high demand item.

    Here is a screenshot I capped today. The price of weapon upgrade chip 1 hour before this image was taken was at 2.8mil(which is already ridiculous imo)

    Yet we see literally only 6 listings one hour later, meaning everything is bought out instantly. And this market for weapon upgrade chip has been getting more and more volatile lately. Last weekend I remember seeing prices for these at 2mil, this week it has been constantly sitting at around 3mil with now this picture. Remember, this is a high demand GAMBLE item... it should not be at this price. If running a raid takes 10minutes, at 250k/run, thats 6hours of grinding to ATTEMPT to upgrade your item ONCE (sure you can get lucky, but we going on a minimum here, since im also not counting other items used for enhancement)


    To give some perspective: JP server, whos been open for 2years, have theirs at 200k/piece. So no, people are not "realizing market prices", something is seriously wrong.



    Recommendation: Increase drop rate... Whether from dungeons or dismantling unique high level weapons.

    Benefits for GameForge: You will make more money... Why? Because end game players will likely want to continue to try their luck. And we all know what happens when that happens, more antidestructs and strengthening tickets are bought. Because lets be honest, how many players on this server is actually attempting to go past +7 on their weapons?

    Benefits for Players: It would be a lot harder to manipulate the market. Because of a increase in supply to match the demand, the price will have to go down, and gold farmers/buyers can only afford so much... That means lower prices, more attempts to achieve the gear of your dreams.


    Let me know what everyone thinks.


    Edit: Also, I'd like to ask everyone who've read this, whether you're a beginner or long time player, to stop buying anything above 3.mil. I know its tough to resist the temptation of upgrading when you have a shit ton of money. But if we can boycott this manipulation war, it will at least temporarily drop the price while hopefully GameForge does something about this

    It would of been nice if there was a wipe honestly.
    Game forge could of taken all the feedbacks from beta players and discussed the details as a team.

    Quote from Laikax

    It would of been nice if there was a wipe honestly.
    Game forge could of taken all the feedbacks from beta players and discussed the details as a team.

    While that may be a good idea, I think it is going to cause a lot more problems since there is cashshop. People probably spent hundreds of dollars into this game and are definitely not gonna be happy about a wipe. There will be more negative press which is bad for a game with a lot of complaints already. So unfortunately we gotta do what we can and try to salvage and fix what we have.

    It's a strategy... don't fall for it. They will buy out the market when it is short on supplies ( mostly ), sometimes people team up indirectly or directly, and buy it out then proceed to increase the prices. Then, they'll let it drop.

    buy -> increase prices -> sell -> let it drop -> repeat.


    However, I'll tell you one thing, prices *Will* increase regardless of what we do as players, so what you see today might be the cheapest you will ever see to do. Wait until they drop, then buy some. Save yourself future trouble.

    dddd

    Quote from Silvery

    It's a strategy... don't fall for it. They will buy out the market when it is short on supplies ( mostly ), sometimes people team up indirectly or directly, and buy it out then proceed to increase the prices. Then, they'll let it drop.

    buy -> increase prices -> sell -> let it drop -> repeat.


    However, I'll tell you one thing, prices *Will* increase regardless of what we do as players, so what you see today might be the cheapest you will ever see to do. Wait until they drop, then buy some. Save yourself future trouble.

    I disagree with just "adapting to the situation" vs "Fixing the situation" Because at the rate that WUC are going up, by the end of the year, WUC will be like closer to 10mil by the end of the year. Given my calculation above, that means it would take days to even attempt to upgrade your weapon a single time.


    Thats why increasing drop rates will fix this issue. When you flood the server with items people don't need, the price of the item is not going to raise. Right now at any given time there may be 200Weapon Upgrade Chips for sale, lets say 150 of those gets price manipulated. Thats only 450mil(I'd say half the people playing since the beginning have this type of spending power) they need to bring out to completely control the market on an extremely high demand item...


    Now lets raise that number to 1000, to remotely control the market, say 75%, now you need 2.25billion DZ to control that. Plus, with the increased drop rate, people will tend to need to buy less, lowering the demand. Now if you were a businessmen trying to make a profit by buy low sell high. Would you risk doing it on an item that is decreasing in demand but increasing in supply? Especially if the investment has become risky?

    Quote from melesean

    Sell it in premiere shop. Problem solved.

    This actually might happen, but bundled with other item or costume, just make it tradeable please


    Quote from darksidecookies

    To give some perspective: JP server, whos been open for 2years, have theirs at 200k/piece. So no, people are not "realizing market prices", something is seriously wrong.

    Maybe future raid drop weapon upgrade chips and other items? seems like other item like star card, tritanium, fragments, and upgrade chips cost much lower on other versions

    Quote from darksidecookies
    Quote from Silvery

    I disagree with just "adapting to the situation" vs "Fixing the situation" Because at the rate that WUC are going up, by the end of the year, WUC will be like closer to 10mil by the end of the year. Given my calculation above, that means it would take days to even attempt to upgrade your weapon a single time.

    It'd be nice to see an increase in the WUC rate, but then, that is hoping *gameforge* does something about this. It'd be wiser to adapt the situation while hoping for a change instead of just hoping for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people need to adapt to the situation, but rather they should consider it. It is not guaranteed that it will be fixed.


    On another note, WUC will always be on demand. Why? Because upgrading is RNG and people will always attempt to get the best. Even if the supply increases, it'll all be the same except that the demand will slightly decrease, and buyouts won't happen as often as they are now, all this will be in lower money terms. So, instead of buying 10, now you can buy 100, then resell. The profit might be lower and slightly harder, but it's possible because it is a *Hot* item that will always be on demand as long as there is upgrading and new content. Only thing that will change is the accessibility, more people can buy it. Also, there are already people who have over 1billion, so even then it'll still happen, and in most of the cases, this is not *one person* doing it but rather *multiple.*


    It's a free market, there are no rules. If there are no rules, people will always attempt to take advantage of it. If you really wanna fix it, then here's a solution that most of the people might dislike: min-max market, controlled prices by publisher.

    dddd

    Still have no idea what you guys are talking about.


    The more you circulate dzenai across the system, the more buying power other people have.

    You would need limitless capital to monopolize something as weapon chips for a long time. 1 billion is only enough to temporarily push prices up for maybe 6 - 12 hours at most. Right now it is sitting at 3.2 million. Eventually, this person or group of people will have to go to sleep and have to 'flood' the market with weapon chips again if they want to sell it for higher.


    The alternative is, to wait for dzenai circulation to be even higher than it is now. Technically then, speaking, they did not profit at all. The reason being is that even if you bought weapon chips at 300k back then, when costume sets were 6m; weapon chips are now 3m and costume sets are now at 80m, meaning your buying power was still reduced, but the effects are not as bad because you bought something that appreciated 10x in value.


    My main point is that you get zero economic profit from reselling, because dzenai is constantly losing its value (unless you literally were able to sell the entire stack at multiple times value- which is not possible unless there's an even larger injection of dzenai source of buyersf rom somewhere). Therefore, you should always keep dzenai in assets and a portion liquid to use for purchasing stuff.


    If you don't sell slowly, then you get razor thin margins, and are just typing up capital. Either way, people who resell, provide immediate liquidity to people who need dzenai. That's the whole point of undercutting someone anyways.


    The average full-raiding individual makes at least 40m a day if they spend all their time raiding, and selling their drops such as frags, energy converters and whatnot. Four attempts at upgrading per day is pretty decent. A week and you maxed out your attempts already. Right now, the dzenai to soulcash ratio is around 45,000:1 for costumes and up to and over 70,000:1 for hair colors and eye colors/types. Around 33,000:1 for VIPs. Assuming a $20 investment nets you 1,500 soul cash, that's 22 upgrade attempts or $0.90 per try plus weapon upgrade protectors (10.7 mins or $2.6 in min wage of Canada) at fair retail value. At RMT-rates, that's $0.90 per attempt too.


    They could increase the success rate of lower pluses, causing a normalization distribution centered around +6 or +7 for everybody, and the occasional rate +8 or +9. In most cases I've seen though, almost everyone has at least +6. Worst case scenario is 40-50 attempts in total to +7 (95% of the time). 150m, which is definitely farmable within 3 -5 days.


    True, WUCs were 300k or 1m or 2m at some point. But everything was cheaper too. Costumes were going for 8m, then 10m, then 15m, then 25m, then 35m. Refineds started out 1-2m, now 6-8m.


    All this means is that everything is scaled up. Your loot is worth more, and the items you need to buy are worth more. Nothing different here. Dzenai is insignificant in comparison to the value of loot, which is due to excess supply of dzenai, and a lack of items. The lack of items is of necessity to gameforge to delay people from quitting after maxing all their gears, and to incentivize them purchase convenience-based items. Giving everyone +8 or +9/maxed stat items would pretty much cause the remaining 55 raiding population to quit with nothing else to do.


    Maybe have an RNG sink that uses dzenai, making energy converters cost an extra 10 mil to NPCs or something. And then 50m to restore it. Idk.

    Edited 3 times, last by Rin ().

    obviously resellers are a huge problem with the inflation. SO how about this. Let's copy how they do it on CSGO. After buying an item in market, make that item unsellabe/tradeable/HEMAble for 7 days after purchase.


    The only downside I can see here for normal players is when they bought more items that they needed and want to resell it back.

    Quote from mdnpascual

    obviously resellers are a huge problem with the inflation. SO how about this. Let's copy how they do it on CSGO. After buying an item in market, make that item unsellabe/tradeable/HEMAble for 7 days after purchase.


    The only downside I can see here for normal players is when they bought more items that they needed and want to resell it back.

    That doesn't stop the issue. Only thing it does is limit the frequency. Players can just keep buying it out until it eventually reaches that point.

    dddd

    Quote from Silvery
    Quote from mdnpascual

    obviously resellers are a huge problem with the inflation. SO how about this. Let's copy how they do it on CSGO. After buying an item in market, make that item unsellabe/tradeable/HEMAble for 7 days after purchase.


    The only downside I can see here for normal players is when they bought more items that they needed and want to resell it back.

    That doesn't stop the issue. Only thing it does is limit the frequency. Players can just keep buying it out until it eventually reaches that point.

    If they keep rebuying the same item. Then the cd should be restarted back to 7 days.

    Jesus... There is so many things wrong about this post I dont even know where to start.

    1. The center of your argument is that Dzenai is inflating, so WUC should be inflating. In normal situations, YES you are absolutely correct. But 1mil/week of growth is NOT "Inflation", its manipulation. YES its impossible to buy out EVERYTHING. But say a shark is only buying out everything under 3mil immediately, which is easily doable. Then now the price has been manipulated to 3mil.


    If I had the spending power of 1bil, I'd easily take 200mil and invest in WUC right now, because its just way too easy to manipulate, Put mine up for 3.3mil, and buy everything under, given VIP status, I will ALWAYS make money.


    2. You claimed 40mil/day raiding... An average individual WITHOUT VIP have 10attempts in raiding. (200ep, 10tries) That means that same individual has to be GUARANTEED an energy converter or 4-5 REFINED Frags to make that amount, so unless you are literally the god of rng which I definitely envy you, this number is completely wack. Also I am going to ignore your p2w comment. As I feel it isn't adding to the conversation.


    3. Tell me one single item that is raising at even 500k/week. Because as I see it, only WUC are getting played like that.


    4. 40Attempts is 120WUC which is at the current pricing ~400mil, not 150.


    5. Finally, I am not asking for prices to go back to 300k or 1mil. I am looking for a solution to at the very minimum, STOP the increase in WUC prices due to manipulation.

    Guys, listen, this is important. WHAT IF alongside the option to upgrade with weapon chips there would be second option where you could use dzenai instead? Like 1mil instead of x1 chip requirement ... this would obviously go up to 3mil for end-game weapons.

    I believe that a change like this would not only keep the prices of upgrade chips in check but also act as a very, very efficient dzenai sink.

    What do you guys think?

    As already said just increase the "drop rate" and/or add more options to get it. I see no reason to discuss this at all, when there is such a simple solution. Suggest the change and be done.

    Quote from Nitros

    As already said just increase the "drop rate" and/or add more options to get it. I see no reason to discuss this at all, when there is such a simple solution. Suggest the change and be done.

    The problem is that the human spirit is wild and uncontrollable ^^ you can give them x4 the chip amount and there's still a big chance that the prices won't drop in the slightest. Cheap solutions can only lead out to cheap results. I say GF would better put in some damn effort into something slightly more complicated but guaranteed to work. Like 100%, the thing I proposed litteraly can't fail to deliver good results.

    ... I wish people would take me seriously for once :(

    The Problem is the inflation^^

    And GF are stupid ^^

    WHY the fck the remove the 6% TAX (Gold VIP and all seller have it ) of Aution House WHY? thats so dumb .....
    There are not good other ways to remove dzenai out of Game.


    They must removed this from VIP Gold or dzenai will lost more and more the Value of it and we see weapon chips on 10 m in some days

    The problem is that people love to talk about problems without doing anything meaningful to solve them. They also like to over complicate everything. You can babble about this for years if you like. Doesn't change a thing. The developers will most likely take the easiest way out.

    Quote from darksidecookies
    Quote from Rin

    2. You claimed 40mil/day raiding... An average individual WITHOUT VIP have 10attempts in raiding. (200ep, 10tries) That means that same individual has to be GUARANTEED an energy converter or 4-5 REFINED Frags to make that amount, so unless you are literally the god of rng which I definitely envy you, this number is completely wack.

    You forget the free daily Dynamite Power Vitamin Z and 30 min community mat which restores 130 EP, giving you 6 more runs per day. On average I make around 350,000 DZ per run, so 16x 350k = 5.6mil. If you actually complete the side quest, you can get a guaranteed 2x inferior fragment per run which is worth 150k for 2, so 150k x16 = 2.4 mil. 5.6mil + 2.4mil = 8mil at bare minimum per day for a F2P player. That does not include ANY drops from the actual raid itself. If you sell all the loot you obtain I can see people making 20-30mil/day realistically, without having to rely on RNG from the boxes for energy converters.