Discussion on Xeon/PVP Gear

    I was wondering what are people thoughts on the PVP system, specifically PVP gear


    Set stats: 30% player damage reduction + 40% damage player damage

    As you can see, without a doubt. It is immediately obvious that if you want to do well in pvp and want to take it somewhat seriously, you either need pvp gear or you're a huge step behind everyone else. However, even before one day of playing, I already dread the idea of having to get a set myself.


    As it currently stands, there are 3 timeslots a day for PVP, and each pvp match you can obtain up to 50Xeon.

    The pricing of PVP gear is as follows:
    Shoulder- 400

    Arm+Helmet - 200

    Chest - 700

    Weapon - 1000

    Total: 2300Xeon


    This means that, even if you were to grind all 3 pvp/day (by the way 2 of which is during a normal person's standard 9-5job in the west coast timeslot) and get rank 1 every single time, you would still need to play 16 days to achieve a pvp set.


    For a normal working person in west coast, thats 3times the time it takes due to not being able to play 2 of the time slots, aka 48days. And thats if you win every single one of them


    For a normal working person in the west coast who gets on average rank 4(31points), its now 75 consecutive days.


    I dont know... That doesn't sit right with me. Hopefully people are right about this 3 timeslot thing being only a test run. Otherwise.... Welp guess I am not getting a pvp set haha

    I can only play PvP on the weekends as I work from 9:00AM until 9:00 PM every weekday.
    I'm not even home on weekends all the time either sadly.


    I guess I'll pass on PvP ' ^' . . .

    Looks like the standard grindy KR style stuff. Probably should add some other stuff to get those Xeon. Like a daily quest and/or weekly ranking.


    The timeslots should probably stay, otherwise you may not find enough players on the less populated servers.

    Quote from Nitros

    Looks like the standard grindy KR style stuff. Probably should add some other stuff to get those Xeon. Like a daily quest and/or weekly ranking.


    The timeslots should probably stay, otherwise you may not find enough players on the less populated servers.

    The current time slots gate out a lot of normal people in the west coast.
    However, you'll never be able to gauge the scale from the vocal minority on forums.


    When I make the statement that it gates out a lot of people on the west coast, this is due to most individuals who have a real job having normal hours from 10AM - 6:00 PM. For those still in college/school, the current time slots work only case by case.


    From other competitors such as Elsword and Closers, there aren't time slots that gate their game's PvP. They have a smaller player base than Soulworker and they don't have issues finding matches (Which is really surprising seeing as the interest in PvP in Closers is very small)

    Fairlyn I don't think it makes sense. When you make gear the make or break between who's viable in PvP and make it so you must farm for that gear, it's absurd. For those who are able to play during all the available hours, they will acquire the PvP gear first.

    The moment they get their PvP gear, they will stomp on anyone without it. Those who can farm it first will deny any chance from anyone who wants to enter into the game's PvP scene.

    Imagine this, say that there was a gear in PvE that gave 30% PvE Damage Reduction and 40% PvE Damage.

    Now, every time you tried to run any PvE dungeon, because you didn't have the gear above, you die. You die over and over because your gear cannot compete against the gear you must farm for to compete in the content.

    I'm basing the above off of what I've been hearing from those with experience in PvP from other servers since I'm not able to play the content myself. However, it does appear that the PvP gear does give an immense edge to anyone who has it (30% Damage Reduction and 40% Damage is no joke in number)

    However, I'm sure some of you guys here have played the content, so please let me know if any of the below apply.

    As someone who hasn't been able to play the PvP mode yet, is there a way for people to still farm at a decent pace for the gear with being a floor mat in the PvP mode? (AKA can't kill anyone and just gets killed)

    Is it possible for someone without 30% damage reduction and 40% damage to take out someone with said PvP gear? I'm aware that anything is possible and skill may come into play, but should the pilot be above average to achieve such a feat?




    Edited 5 times, last by Zhu ().

    If you want to compare it Elsword, then compare it to Ereda Island. And no trouble? Yeah maybe 1 on 1 is a matter of minutes, everything else... Good luck.

    Quote from Nitros

    If you want to compare it Elsword, then compare it to Ereda Island. And no trouble? Yeah maybe 1 on 1 is a matter of minutes, everything else... Good luck.

    Strawman argument, I actually notice you do this a lot from reading many of your other posts.

    Try thinking deeper into why that may be the case on the topic of Elsword's PvP. As an older game, Elsword offers a ton of PvP modes. It just so happens that for your argument, you've chosen the most unpopular PvP mode.

    Now, compare Soulworker to the early days of Elsword so that we have an accurate comparison since Soulworker did recently officially launch. Even compare it to my other example, Closers.

    They offer/offered a PvP mode that wasn't gated and didn't have issues finding an audience despite the smaller player base.

    What? Talking about Elsword DE, now EU:

    • 1 on 1 was always the most popular one. Well, it only needs two people.
    • 2 on 2 was doable, but nor nearly as as popular. With the removal ob premade party, I don't even now the state it in anymore.
    • Everything could be consider dead.

    It took util PvP Season 2 before arena even existence and 3 on 3 was maybe talked about once in a while. Also 2 on 2 was removed for not being popular enough in KR. Lucky they reverted it later. You can browse YouTube and only KR will really give you a lot of 3 on 3 videos.

    This mode requires more then two players. Why would I compare it to 1 on 1? It also has a PvE / PvP mix just like Ereda Island.


    You need players for it. If you limit the time it can be entered more people will joined at this specif time. No matter how you look at it, this will always be the case. I won't disagree that you have to adjust to a little.


    Now explain to me why I should compare it to something it has very little in common with it?Also don't do that "strawman argument" is only going to come off as a provocation. Just counter it with a good argument. I could just say the same about you picking the most popular one. However let us not do this and derail the topic. There is no point anyway.

    Now you're back peddling and I see you still don't understand the logic here.
    "Oh shoot, I got caught and now I need to mention the fact I was referring to another server that Zhu probably doesn't have knowledge about."

    The comparison was that two other anime style dungeon crawler "MMORPG" games have released a PvP mode in the past and didn't gate it with time slots. Additionally, neither game had issues finding matches for their PvP mode they released.

    However, you're not able to comprehend this and you're pointing towards a PvP mode that was released further down the line that wasn't popular to support your argument that time slots are needed to keep content relevant.


    Don't act like provocation wasn't my intention as it's pretty clear that it was. Your previous post was not constructive and provided a logical fallacy to support your statement. Now I get to have an example of you justifying it.

    This just screams PvP dead in a very short time because there will be people obtaining stacked gears and then dominating arenas consistently.


    What ever happened to balanced PvP where everyone is on a level playing field? Ugh, I'm not usually a PvPer in these types of games because of the way gears determine the outcome of matches rather than your skill level. This one seems really bad at the moment I don't see it doing well at all.


    I was competitive PvP back in the good days when quake arena and unreal tournament were fresh and also counter strike because skill determines almost everything not just the gears your wear.


    What they need to do is make it much easier to get everyone on a level playing field in terms of gears in a short period of time (rather than this long grind) in order for PvP to prosper imo.

    Prerty sure the goal of the pvp game is to farm mobs and deposit points without getting caught. You can engage in PvP with others but just because you stomp on people doesn't mean you get top rank if your enemeis don't have points to give in the first place. So it's a waste of time to kill newbs/pick on the smaller fish.


    But I only read about it, haven't been able to get in lol

    I see a lot of people comparing Soulworkers with Elsword or Closers. I'm just gonna say, those are not good comparisons because while they fall under the Anime genre and are mainly dungeon instances, they have different core mechanic fundamentals. Elsword and Closers are more Beat em Up Brawlers, while Soulworker is more of a Hack n Slash. A much better comparison would be Dragon Nest that has basically about the same fundamentals as Soulworker, and regarding PvP of Dragon Nest in its early days it was pretty fun because it wasn't gear dependent and certain stats and skills were adjusted.


    I'm hoping it will be like that here sometime in the future, but I'm gonna be expecting to see lopsided victory for those who are decked out on their gears. Well, one can only dream of fair competition and equality among all.

    after reading is find 2 things missing:


    1. PvP Weapon only got 1560 Dmg vs 2041 Dmg (+583) Vicarius (Haru Stats)

    Didnt do the math, but im expecting the Dmg to be pretty equal with the 30% boost.

    Armour is another story maybe.


    2. Comparing Soulworker PvP with Closer and Elsword PvP:

    you forget to mention that we only can do the new PvP at Lvl 55.

    In Elsword and Closers you could do it at around Lvl 20.

    Mix it with 8 people needed for a match (not only 2 for most of Elsword and Closers PvP)

    = only small playerbase can do the mode and you need way more players for a match to start



    After the first Round of PvP we had 11 Rank 1. This means 88 People did join.

    Its good its timed entry. You wouldnt find a match after 2-3 weeks.

    I think there is no point in talking to someone who just limits this to one server out of 7. There is no logical fallacy if you consider that statement being based on a server that doesn't include two whole continents. The "back peddling" argument also becomes ridiculous when you consider that I am German. The "logical fallacy" here is to not consider that there is more in this world the just NA. I personally play on Candus by the way.

    However, I am actually under the impression that this kinda derails the topic, so I like to stop. Well, I could do that all day long, but I would probably be called out for that. Correctly so.


    Anyway...

    Quote from Koumaru

    I see a lot of people comparing Soulworkers with Elsword or Closers. I'm just gonna say, those are not good comparisons because while they fall under the Anime genre and are mainly dungeon instances, they have different core mechanic fundamentals. Elsword and Closers are more Beat em Up Brawlers, while Soulworker is more of a Hack n Slash. A much better comparison would be Dragon Nest that has basically about the same fundamentals as Soulworker[...]

    I actually agree on that. However the comparison was made based on people playing it. I say it's similar enough. What we are talking about here isn't even "pure PvP" either, strictly speaking. Looking at Candus, you don't have enough players for the queue of every dungeon, not even the ones with Manic Quests. Now considering not everybody likes PvP-Style modes, can we guarantee there will be enough players? At the amount this is probably possible for the peek hours. In a long run, especially if other modes are added, this might become problematic. I rather have this build future proof and adding the restriction later might backfire. After all humans really hate to adjust once they got used to something. No matter if its better or not.


    The whole farming aspect can just e solved by inserting quests. The "dead in a very short" time proematic can be solved by adding more or specific rewards. For example consider items to to reroll IDs or grade on even non PvP gear. In this case the restriction actually makes sense to not make and farmable.

    Edited once, last by Nitros ().

    Hmmm, there are a couple points here that is really interesting.

    1. The whole damage thing, I didnt do the calculations either but it might make sense that the +40% damage might not be as high as we actually think due to base damage being lower.


    2. Timeslots being used to "gather people" or so to say. But what if instead of 3timeslots/day focused at a very specific timezone, we do every 2 hours? that will semi gate the pvp to gather more people but still allow others with jobs to play this game?


    3. Also for those saying its the end all be all of sets, well true, but you forget that there is rng involved with crafting as well for random stats. For those who really wanna bump their gear up to the next level, they would be stuck having to use the ever so expensive 40mil EC to change their stats instead of getting another chance to remake the item. That would be another issue I imagine.

    Yeah a lot of games have limited time slot queues. NA is a big continent, they should add a queue for 0:00 EST because that is 21:00 PST

    It's an issue due to NA's size but wat else ya gonna do, bug the government for universal NA time? XP

    The problem about Dimension Shutter currently is not the gear but the fact that every single thing interrupts your point drop and it's literally roll of dice how many people wants to focus you. Also classes like Haru have advantage over players like Stella since they can literally melt first rooms before anyone has chance to catchup and go deposit shitload of points for free

    Quote from Nitros

    I actually agree on that. However the comparison was made based on people playing it. I say it's similar enough. What we are talking about here isn't even "pure PvP" either, strictly speaking. Looking at Candus, you don't have enough players for the queue of every dungeon, not even the ones with Manic Quests. Now considering not everybody likes PvP-Style modes, can we guarantee there will be enough players? At the amount this is probably possible for the peek hours. In a long run, especially if other modes are added, this might become problematic. I rather have this build future proof and adding the restriction later might backfire. After all humans really hate to adjust once they got used to something. No matter if its better or not.


    The whole farming aspect can just e solved by inserting quests. The "dead in a very short" time proematic can be solved by adding more or specific rewards. For example consider items to to reroll IDs or grade on even non PvP gear. In this case the restriction actually makes sense to not make and farmable.

    That is true when we're comparing to how many active players are playing since I consider Dragon Nest to be dead now, and the majority of players who played or are playing Soulworkers most likely did not prioritized PvP as their main goal. It still has a small playerbase, so a time frame would make sense for now. That way those who want to PvP know when to actively search and join instead of wondering if anyone is coming out to play with you as you wait for queue to roll on.


    As for the gears you get out of doing PvP, it does give you an advantage in it and slightly for doing Manic Districts <-- (this is most likely wrong thanks to Saintone). Wearing a full set would give you:


    - +40% PvP Damage Increase

    - +30% PvP Damage Reduction


    - +502 Manic Damage

    - +493 Manic Balance (I'm assuming that's defense)

    And that's just the minimum.


    But let's be honest, the Vicarous Calling Set is still way better than these rewards so in a sense there's no point in farming it.


    P.S. When you said Candus, I thought you were referring to Candus City. Silly me, I forgot Candus was the server for EN.


    Edit

    Saintone Now that is really such a misleading translation and would make a lot of sense, just like the two Extra Damage to PvP stats before.

    Edited once, last by Koumaru: Run-on sentences are just awful ().

    Manic Damage and Manic Balance are PVP specific stats that are raw increases in damage and raw decreases in damage taken vs. other players. It just awkwardly enough is named in such a way that is confusing. It is not a PVE stat.


    The PVP gear is powerful, but only when completed as a full set. The set can be considered questionable to replace your VC set before that point, with marginal defensive gains traded for large offensive ones gradually (even as soon as two replaced items off your VC set will cause you to lose a huge amount of Critical Rate and Critical Damage).


    Therein, at the rate people are accumulating points, you shouldn't see someone with the full set for some change less than a month from now (20 days or more).


    There's also the concern that this is the unique set. There's a glaring issue that by investing into it, you may set yourself back notably when it comes to the un-released legendary set later on. We already have to invest a hefty amount of resources into Aurith equipment and Primal equipment later on. People are investing hugely into their VC sets now. There's the matter of investing into the Shocking PVP set now for those looking for an immediate edge in PVP. And to even consider the factor of getting poor rolls on PVP gear, which like Primal will roll 3-4 lines, is an even bigger factor.