Stop bots and gold buyer/seller

  • As all People have noticed on Na market or EN The market get slow but sure in a stupid overpriced directio. seeing in the Megaphone chat every 2 ours 1 person writing selling dzer 100mill for 5.5 dollar. wich is rlly bad people wich just joined buy gold or people buy gold in order to controll the market. i want that gameforge take action in order to get rid of people like that. just check how long people are online with a programm or check how many time they traded people for 100 mill its easy to fund bots gold seller and buyer than just ban the seller for ever, the buyer for 1 week the bots also perma band since its the seller prob owning the bots(you could also id ban them just like overwatch did or is still doing). so you have only people wich love the game and dont destroy everything.

  • Couldn't agree more,despite GF's team initial actions against bots,the problem is still very much present,and putting the final nail in the gold bot selling's coffin will be appreciated by many,especially since they tend to put a lot of money circulating around,which as we all know leads to currency devaluation and subsequently...inflation, ID bans are an excellent way to stop this all,cause i doubt a gold seller would want to get around it,but still,some bots are still around megaphoning,and they stand there for days if not weeks or even more unpunished.IMO just working to find a way to ID and ban bots faster could be a very good start


    oh the irony,as i spent time writing this,i came back to 1 megaphone insertion,and a district one,hope that sums up how bots are still very much active

  • Fighting against bots is a never ending effort. With the tools we now finally have in place, we have it somewhat under control, but I agree, it is still a big problem. Everyday we deny more than a thousand attemted scripted logins, ban a whole bunch of goldbanks, manually kick and ban the spammers that make it through registration. We could be more strict in the autodetection, but that would lead to a lot of false positive bans. That the farming occurs in instances makes it rally hard to find the farmbots before they deliver the gold to the seller.
    We are working on a better detection, but even once it is finished, the botters will find a way around it. And we another thing to prevent it. As long as people are willing to buy deznai, we will have a gold seller problem.

  • Fighting against bots is a never ending effort. With the tools we now finally have in place, we have it somewhat under control, but I agree, it is still a big problem. Everyday we deny more than a thousand attemted scripted logins, ban a whole bunch of goldbanks, manually kick and ban the spammers that make it through registration. We could be more strict in the autodetection, but that would lead to a lot of false positive bans. That the farming occurs in instances makes it rally hard to find the farmbots before they deliver the gold to the seller.
    We are working on a better detection, but even once it is finished, the botters will find a way around it. And we another thing to prevent it. As long as people are willing to buy deznai, we will have a gold seller problem.

    how is it than one person is saying 3 days long in magephone chat he sells gold and dont get banned



    Edit by 25arp26, inappropriate content / image

  • Calm down dude, same post in different section, same images, at this point it's just personal hate against that dude. If you want to solve the situation asap I have an idea. Anyway Phelan already said everything, it's so accurate.

  • The problem about that is, If people would get banned for trading high amounts of money would lead tofalse banns like "Phelan" already said and for newbies too.

    Even I had the moments when a guildmember asked me to borrow him 150 mil and i gave it to him (trustworthy) 2 days later he gave it back to me. In case of your point we both would have to get banned for trading "high" amounts of money for nothing while it was just helping a guild member... and the other point is If a gold buyer should be tracked by this method just trade a fking Mediqube for 100 mill and the system wont recognize him either.


    -Kyoka

  • The problem about that is, If people would get banned for trading high amounts of money would lead tofalse banns like "Phelan" already said and for newbies too.

    Even I had the moments when a guildmember asked me to borrow him 150 mil and i gave it to him (trustworthy) 2 days later he gave it back to me. In case of your point we both would have to get banned for trading "high" amounts of money for nothing while it was just helping a guild member... and the other point is If a gold buyer should be tracked by this method just trade a fking Mediqube for 100 mill and the system wont recognize him either.


    -Kyoka

    one time 100 milll is no problem but more than like 10 times a week vs nothing in exchange i dont say the system should ban them just mark them so player can be checked out if they are bots or not obvius if some one played 24/7 he is a bot. the gold seller in all chat should be perma banned and his accounts maybe even a id ban would help but idk how gameforge does there stuff.

  • Hello! madozan1


    Again, please avoid double posting. You can edit your old comment at any time.

    Refrain from posting such pictures, this is against the forum rules.


    The forum team (mods) is not responsible for ingame matters.

    You can report ingame violations in the support system.


    /image removed


    Regards,

    Arp

    sigarp_zps76a4a02e.png

    CIRCUMFLEXTWENTYFIVEARPTWENTYSIX!

  • I didnt see first post about it,but its extremly correct *scream* . You guys(I mean all GameForge Company; because if you working on there,and if you responding me on here,it means you are talking to company's name) dont taking any precautions about,Gold sellers, Hack and Server issues. Gold Sellers writing even with Megaphone,Hackers using hack even at Rift Arena,and if you can use on public places this hack,what will stop them to use on Raids? Or even when servers gone on EN server,you guys didnt say anything from anywhere... We're trying to be good part of community,but how we can countinue with that issues,even seeing nothing to fix that.

  • Thing is that you cannot outban bots, but you can however ban anyone who buys from said bots.
    All this information can be found in the database if the company is willing to put an effort into tracking it,

    after that it's just a matter of keeping an eye on the traffic and acting on it.

    A company can literally see and know who buys from the bot accounts so it says a lot about them if they are

    not taking actions, sadly. Nothing you can do about it but refusing to support the company for not acting on it.

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  • There are several ways around this issue, I have not been here long but I use the black list for them as it winds me up seeing them shout in chats. Maybe the publisher could look into a way that they could sell golds to their clients, it would not be the 1st time as I have seen that used in other gaming outlets, also make megaphones only accessible to capped players as most I have noticed only use normal chats anyway.

    I have spoken a fair bit to support this past week about other issues not related to this topic and I for one know they work extremely hard, so please cut them some slack.

  • Fighting against bots is a never ending effort. With the tools we now finally have in place, we have it somewhat under control, but I agree, it is still a big problem. Everyday we deny more than a thousand attemted scripted logins, ban a whole bunch of goldbanks, manually kick and ban the spammers that make it through registration. We could be more strict in the autodetection, but that would lead to a lot of false positive bans. That the farming occurs in instances makes it rally hard to find the farmbots before they deliver the gold to the seller.
    We are working on a better detection, but even once it is finished, the botters will find a way around it. And we another thing to prevent it. As long as people are willing to buy deznai, we will have a gold seller problem.

    Ban the Buyer too.

  • Frankly, people need a better understanding of things.

    Selling soulcash gives better rates in terms off earning DZ than buying from bots;

    1xPcG73.png


    However, spamming the market decreases the amount you earn from players. Also, it takes time to get DZ from other players.


    Therefore, there is a market for immediate DZ.


    Banning people does not do anything.


    Gameforge knows

    paying users

    (a) play the game more often than other users, or invest more time into the game - especially higher revenue ones; who else buys cosmetics to show off to others, or weapon upgrades to run runs

    (b) have a disposable income, or means of allowance expenditures


    Why do people buy gold in games?

    (a) frustration of rates relative to purchasing power

    ~ X person fails upgrading Y times, and no longer has DZ, and does not want to wait; also does not want to expend $2.5 ~ $3.50 per upgrade; swipes for better comparable rates per dollar per upgrade


    cause (i) systematic design of game to induce frustration combined with publisher hinderance effects of gratification (no favourability system for better upgrade rates, no weapon chips being sold in cash shop, lack of playerbase to farm said goods, low drop rate, low upgrade success rate)


    (b) a market of immediate purchases of goods, like blueprints, gears, energy converts, and other items;

    players are rational and not stupid (i) they are not going to spend $5 on a 1-time 1-hour upgrade book for 10% drop rate, when they can earn proportonally more with DZ for gear like $20


    Why is Gameforge in this precedent?

    Gameforge cannot sell gear and gold directly, they can but that would affect their perception management as solidified P2W, dissuading F2P coming and being converted to paying users in the first place.


    I mentioned this before, but buying DZ at a discount rate parity to purchasing items in game results in equilibrum.


    Say, costumes = $19.90 at third-tier SC package purchase

    Say, gold = 500M for $15


    Costumes in game are 600m at market price (combined set)


    This means that inflation levels rises to parity with rates as set by gameforge items for multiple reasons;

    Farming DZ is rate-limiting, it is capital-intensive, requiring man-hours to farm or bot-hours, and requiring gears/titles to expedite efficiency. Gameforge is always banning this; thus the rate at which players purchase SC to introduce items into the economy is always faster than these bots can pump out farming DZ per SC item introduced, making it a pointless endeavor in purchasing gold since the SC to DZ ratio is rising in game.


    Furthermore, bot DZ introduces DZ to the economy, reducing the purchasing power of all users who are not retaining assets, and also increases the money velocity temporarily. However, once users have everything they need, they themselves become DZ banks (DZ becomes immobile again). The remaining users who do not have DZ to purchase said items will mean prices cannot increase infinitely as more players quit / become satisified with their current state of progression gear-wise (e.g. +8 or +9 weapon from buying WUCs from using DZ). You can clearly see this as not even bunny outfits (which are event-exclusive) going for higher than 600m for the body on NA.


    NA also has more access to capital, with more willing users to spend for instant gratification; unlike other markets like EU. Gameforge could exploit this, and they do - this is why they removed ECs and WUCs from the shop, creating a vortex void demand for DZ. Level 9 soulstones not as much because it is not RNG-dependent. But gear-rolls and weapon upgrades are. The meme I am about to post clearly illustrates this effect;


    m3mAcvK.png


    It is likely that gold buyers are also likely to be SC buyers and it would be a conflict of interest for GF to ban said users; the reason being is that these users are paying users or willing paying users in some sense in exchange for some realized gain, but for some idea- they do not find the rates attractive in regards to the RNG required to do things - and thus would rather expend at a cheaper rate than the one set by GF. Realistically GF, should introduce price discrimination to segment prices from highing-payer users to lower-paying users, but it is impossible because non-price standardization would cause a community protest and dissuade the higher-paying users from paying altogether if they knew lower-paying users could pay less. It is a catch-22. GF needs to rely less on RNG as a steady-revenue source because it is obviously causing a big wall of exodus of players if one simply watches the pre- and post-time frames of steam charts following content updates with most free users leaving (not even having a chance to be converted to paying users) and the remaining paying users to be those (with good RNG), and the rest leaving in frustration (lack of content and lack of progress combined).



    F2P simply will not have any parties to play with or be gatelocked out of the content; nobody reaching GC at level 55 is going to play 25-45 minute runs hoping to find a party. GF clearly is targeting "hard-core" high-paying users, and the sustainability of this strategy is called into question once these players feel "contented" from having all the "gear" in the game as well as "status symbols" and/or "frustration" from high expenditures and "lack of progress" with the remaining F2P seeing no one else play / lack of "parties" to do "normal" mode raids/eles. Gear discrimination will become more prelevant in primal and so on updates, so realistically only jobless/school-aged vacation-time F2P will exist in this game, with all casual F2P quitting long before then.1TQJeLn.jpg


    I will be frank and honest, most people at the end-game tier level are very willing and likely to spend $30 per piece or $200 for an entire upgraded armor and weapon set, and perhaps $35 per 5-star tier-3 akashi card. However, GF knows RNG generates more profit than fixed-ratio gear assets because one guy pulling 8 boxes is $60 x 8 and 200 cumulative fails on armor + weapon upgrades is $300-$600. Just look at how bad upgrading at in this game.

    OpRF0VK.png


    DXZ2naP.png


    I will probably no longer swipe for this game knowing that you either must be lucky farming 40-100 hours per week and/or invest in $300-$800 per content update just to play the game appropriately (not 25-40 minute GC runs).

    UwaVdb4.png


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    dcb5bcf0c28fd156a2932d0b7632124d-jpg.jpg?width=1037&height=702


    If GF was smart, they would introduce $1 RNG upgrade boxes

    - 25% chance to obtain either : 50 refiners, 10 enhanced refiners, 2 specialized refiners

    - 25% chance to obtain 3 WUCs

    - 20% chance to obtain energy converter

    - 10% chance to obtain 2 Anti-destructs

    - 10% chance to obtain 1 Strength expansion

    - 10% Chance to obtain 1 Armor Reducer


    And it would cost 50,000,000 DZ to buy once per week for F2P (non-tradable) as a DZ sink.


    This would satiate the gambling addiction in more price-sensitive players, with smaller wallets.


    And then bundle 25 of these for $20, or 50 for $35 to make people feel like they 'get' more for less.


    And then have an auto-success scroll which consumes in-game materials (from raiding) that costs roughly $40. Those who don't like to gamble would spend on average $80 per weapon, $160 per armor set or more. Or they could give away '1' for free for spending x soulcash, or come bundled with costumes. Upon item breakage, they could offer discounted armor restorers for $2.00 for those who upgrade often - this would create a marketplace for weapons and allow F2P to continue playing too.


    Tagged weapons could come up by 'leveling' NPCs favourability, etc - then people will minmax their gear. Right now, it's too expensive to even consider being a 'weapon smith' with loot rates being atrocious and only fair for those with VIP on speed runs with other 'P2Pers'.


    Likewise they could let F2Pers sample 'in-game costumes' who play every 30 X hours, for one week as a package. This would increase conversion rates for F2P, especially low levels. And they can get it discounted with an ad box that shows up if they buy the same one they got for free, and more discounts if they buy 3. Same with 'cosmetic' bundles (1/3 of all hair colors + hair styles for $30).


    Anyhow, there are better ways to monetize than expensive RNG, and gameforge is doing a terrible job at it. The type of players I have access to (ARPU $150-$2,500/month) are very much dissuaded from spending on this game.


    Trade and player community interaction is so difficult in this game, that it is also hindering players to purchase anything from other players. The spot market price is 180k on NA and 250-350k on market for 1 SC. Sometimes, being generous with samples, bundles, sales events, exclusivity and other principles can generate more revenue than 'loss' aversion - but alas it is lost on this company.

    Edited 10 times, last by Rin ().

  • Couldn't agree more,despite GF's team initial actions against bots,the problem is still very much present,and putting the final nail in the gold bot selling's coffin will be appreciated by many,especially since they tend to put a lot of money circulating around,which as we all know leads to currency devaluation and subsequently...inflation, ID bans are an excellent way to stop this all,cause i doubt a gold seller would want to get around it,but still,some bots are still around megaphoning,and they stand there for days if not weeks or even more unpunished.IMO just working to find a way to ID and ban bots faster could be a very good start


    oh the irony,as i spent time writing this,i came back to 1 megaphone insertion,and a district one,hope that sums up how bots are still very much active

    well the problems of it is not just the gold sellers its the people that are just players and bot themselves as well. As or what a previous poster said about looking for 100 mil or higher transaction yea... that wont work either. Because as it is not i cant even start to think about how many high dollar items there are in the market. and not all those transactions can be completed in one go. Its just really the cash shop honestly. The only way I have ever seen a game truly control gold selling is where there was no profit in it for the gold sellers. Meaning that cash shop would have to be on par/ less than what the gold sellers are selling for.


    No one is willing to work for nothing. And its the same for the gold sellers. Given the rng in this game honestly GF has a lot of room to work with in pricing reductions. Its a typical thing in most games now days but this one is a bit high still. They just need to pay more attention to where the money is on things. But ehh...i dont see it happening. Every one of their games I have played has been this way. I sadly think may people misunderstand how this company works. I say that with no disrespect intended nor as a troll. Just simple facts. If your seriously looking for some divine intervention on this its not gonna happen.


    In all honesty it really is in the interest to do nothing. okay if a silver and gold package is going for 500 mill. then how many people will say "ohh damn i can legally get 500 mill just for that amount?" many and many have been doing that. Which in turn= more sales for GF. They have next to no incentive to mess with it. Not unless they change their pricing on items. Which again....why would they if people are buying them? I dont see an end to it. But ehh

  • That's a detailed explanation of what i had gut feeling about, but never could put it in words. Thank you!


    Tl;Dr Plan is to attract large audience via steam platform, push casuals off the cliff; while attract and trap hardcore (whales) players for milking purposes while publisher does least amount of work for it. All the while population drops and DZ numbers keep rising with prices for essential upgrading tools to ridicilous levels. Ohh yeah, i think bots fit in there somewhere too between contributing to the problem and occasionally paying tribute to our overlord.


    that's all.


    Right and as for suggestions, 100% agree with everything. Making a DZ sink while making it more managable for whales and low paying customers, while attracting f2p to spend atleast a little. Also giving someting for f2p players to look forward to with timed sample costumes would be better for both game and players, to keep up the higher playerbase.

    Edited once, last by Galpatchie: Editing for part that mentions a suggestion from Rin! ().

  • This is a long winded way to say the same thing. GF basically sets if the gold sellers can make money or not. Is it intentional? dont know. Will it change? dont know. However if a person can make more off of selling CS items then obviously they would buy from the game more and resell.

  • This guy though... The same guy has been spamming his crap on Tenebris for over a week now and he's still not banned.

    im sorry but honestly its more of a gf issue. and well no its more of a player thing as well. The gold sellers are not to blame. Its the people buying the gold and those who are making billions in game selling cash shop items at over inflated prices. Its really an easy fix. But i dont see gf lowering prices. so.....gg gold sellers/ buyers i guess....hope not though.