Weapon upgrade chips soon 100m? (EN Candus)

Quote from Vitae

Quote from WildEyes

Well if we take KR server as a model, they already had the GC revamp. Is something we should have as well, but I don't know when. GC revamp will decrease the number of boss for each room making them a single wave (not double as it is now) and raise drop rate in general, also for WUC.

Right now, I gave up trying to enhance my aurith weapon to +7. I'm sitting in a corner waiting for GC revamp. Then I'll start again to try to enhance but not now, now is a waste of time and money.

It's a matter of time before is fixed for sure, it's just a matter of when and whether gameforge will take the effort to calm the community down and tell us a solution is coming, but I highly doubt gameforge even looks at these forums anymore. It's just moderators instead of Community Managers which is kind of disappointing because they have the most influence on the community.
threea Nyoka not being rude but it would certainly nice to not be left in the dark when possible.
even something as simple as leaving a statement from gameforge on certain issues and concerns would be nice

I disagree with you on that matter and let me explain:Ofc they see and read all the posts in forum thats their job.

Now you ask for a completely different thing here:To make an official statement.Let me tell you this:Even if they want they cant.

What you ask here is to bluntly influence the market of the game that players made as it is now.

Simple rules of economy Supply and Demand.WUC prices rise coz people actually BUY them at those prices.

You want the price of WUC to drop?Simply stop buying them.Ask the players to do something not the community manager.

If they actually reply on this thread im gonna make the same about AUC that went from 10k to 2m in a couple of days and then armour cores that went from 10k to 200k and so on.

Players set the prices in the game not GameForge

Quote from Deatharrow

Quote from Vitae

Quote from WildEyes

Well if we take KR server as a model, they already had the GC revamp. Is something we should have as well, but I don't know when. GC revamp will decrease the number of boss for each room making them a single wave (not double as it is now) and raise drop rate in general, also for WUC.

Right now, I gave up trying to enhance my aurith weapon to +7. I'm sitting in a corner waiting for GC revamp. Then I'll start again to try to enhance but not now, now is a waste of time and money.

It's a matter of time before is fixed for sure, it's just a matter of when and whether gameforge will take the effort to calm the community down and tell us a solution is coming, but I highly doubt gameforge even looks at these forums anymore. It's just moderators instead of Community Managers which is kind of disappointing because they have the most influence on the community.
threea Nyoka not being rude but it would certainly nice to not be left in the dark when possible.
even something as simple as leaving a statement from gameforge on certain issues and concerns would be nice

I disagree with you on that matter and let me explain:Ofc they see and read all the posts in forum thats their job.

Now you ask for a completely different thing here:To make an official statement.Let me tell you this:Even if they want they cant.

What you ask here is to bluntly influence the market of the game that players made as it is now.

Simple rules of economy Supply and Demand.WUC prices rise coz people actually BUY them at those prices.

You want the price of WUC to drop?Simply stop buying them.Ask the players to do something not the community manager.

If they actually reply on this thread im gonna make the same about AUC that went from 10k to 2m in a couple of days and then armour cores that went from 10k to 200k and so on.

Players set the prices in the game not GameForge

Display More

So lemme get this straight, you want me to go ask players to sort this issue out. You want me to ask the people who are purposefully raising these prices to make a shit ton of Dz and you expect them to stop?
People obviously aren't going to stop buying them because to get a +9 you'll need 200+ WUC's which is waaaaay too painful because they buggered the drop rates.
Gameforge doesn't have to directly address the PRICES just address the poor drop rates and availability of WUCs. The reason people are able to manipulate these prices so easy is because they're is such high demand and no matter how expensive, people are desperate for them.
The argument about AUCs is kinda flat seeing as levelling armour has almost no where near the impact on gameplay compared to a maxed weapon, people value weapons more than armour when it comes to maxing. They will never be anywhere near the amount WUCs cost.

Yes it's a player caused issue but at the same time it is also gameforge caused in some aspects. Some of these 'whales' dominating and manipulating the market are hackers and gold purchasers, yes hackers do believe in this game believe it or not. The fact that there are hackers and gold bots isn't a player issue, would you say?

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Deatharrow

Quote from Vitae

Quote from WildEyes

Well if we take KR server as a model, they already had the GC revamp. Is something we should have as well, but I don't know when. GC revamp will decrease the number of boss for each room making them a single wave (not double as it is now) and raise drop rate in general, also for WUC.

Right now, I gave up trying to enhance my aurith weapon to +7. I'm sitting in a corner waiting for GC revamp. Then I'll start again to try to enhance but not now, now is a waste of time and money.

It's a matter of time before is fixed for sure, it's just a matter of when and whether gameforge will take the effort to calm the community down and tell us a solution is coming, but I highly doubt gameforge even looks at these forums anymore. It's just moderators instead of Community Managers which is kind of disappointing because they have the most influence on the community.
threea Nyoka not being rude but it would certainly nice to not be left in the dark when possible.
even something as simple as leaving a statement from gameforge on certain issues and concerns would be nice

I disagree with you on that matter and let me explain:Ofc they see and read all the posts in forum thats their job.

Now you ask for a completely different thing here:To make an official statement.Let me tell you this:Even if they want they cant.

What you ask here is to bluntly influence the market of the game that players made as it is now.

Simple rules of economy Supply and Demand.WUC prices rise coz people actually BUY them at those prices.

You want the price of WUC to drop?Simply stop buying them.Ask the players to do something not the community manager.

If they actually reply on this thread im gonna make the same about AUC that went from 10k to 2m in a couple of days and then armour cores that went from 10k to 200k and so on.

Players set the prices in the game not GameForge

Display More

So lemme get this straight, you want me to go ask players to sort this issue out. You want me to ask the people who are purposefully raising these prices to make a shit ton of Dz and you expect them to stop?
People obviously aren't going to stop buying them because to get a +9 you'll need 200+ WUC's which is waaaaay too painful because they buggered the drop rates.
Gameforge doesn't have to directly address the PRICES just address the poor drop rates and availability of WUCs. The reason people are able to manipulate these prices so easy is because they're is such high demand and no matter how expensive, people are desperate for them.
The argument about AUCs is kinda flat seeing as levelling armour has almost no where near the impact on gameplay compared to a maxed weapon, people value weapons more than armour when it comes to maxing. They will never be anywhere near the amount WUCs cost.

Yes it's a player caused issue but at the same time it is also gameforge caused in some aspects. Some of these 'whales' dominating and manipulating the market are hackers and gold purchasers, yes hackers do believe in this game believe it or not. The fact that there are hackers and gold bots isn't a player issue, would you say?

Display More

First of all your statement that you need 200 WUC to +9 is a LIE!!! i made 100+ tries from +7 to +8 thats alone more than 300 WUC and guess what?My weapon is +7.

I agree with you tho that they need to bring back the old drop rate and CMON release loyalty system already at least to be more easy to enchant

Quote from Deatharrow

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Deatharrow

Quote from Vitae

Quote from WildEyes

Well if we take KR server as a model, they already had the GC revamp. Is something we should have as well, but I don't know when. GC revamp will decrease the number of boss for each room making them a single wave (not double as it is now) and raise drop rate in general, also for WUC.

Right now, I gave up trying to enhance my aurith weapon to +7. I'm sitting in a corner waiting for GC revamp. Then I'll start again to try to enhance but not now, now is a waste of time and money.

It's a matter of time before is fixed for sure, it's just a matter of when and whether gameforge will take the effort to calm the community down and tell us a solution is coming, but I highly doubt gameforge even looks at these forums anymore. It's just moderators instead of Community Managers which is kind of disappointing because they have the most influence on the community.
threea Nyoka not being rude but it would certainly nice to not be left in the dark when possible.
even something as simple as leaving a statement from gameforge on certain issues and concerns would be nice

I disagree with you on that matter and let me explain:Ofc they see and read all the posts in forum thats their job.

Now you ask for a completely different thing here:To make an official statement.Let me tell you this:Even if they want they cant.

What you ask here is to bluntly influence the market of the game that players made as it is now.

Simple rules of economy Supply and Demand.WUC prices rise coz people actually BUY them at those prices.

You want the price of WUC to drop?Simply stop buying them.Ask the players to do something not the community manager.

If they actually reply on this thread im gonna make the same about AUC that went from 10k to 2m in a couple of days and then armour cores that went from 10k to 200k and so on.

Players set the prices in the game not GameForge

Display More

So lemme get this straight, you want me to go ask players to sort this issue out. You want me to ask the people who are purposefully raising these prices to make a shit ton of Dz and you expect them to stop?
People obviously aren't going to stop buying them because to get a +9 you'll need 200+ WUC's which is waaaaay too painful because they buggered the drop rates.
Gameforge doesn't have to directly address the PRICES just address the poor drop rates and availability of WUCs. The reason people are able to manipulate these prices so easy is because they're is such high demand and no matter how expensive, people are desperate for them.
The argument about AUCs is kinda flat seeing as levelling armour has almost no where near the impact on gameplay compared to a maxed weapon, people value weapons more than armour when it comes to maxing. They will never be anywhere near the amount WUCs cost.

Yes it's a player caused issue but at the same time it is also gameforge caused in some aspects. Some of these 'whales' dominating and manipulating the market are hackers and gold purchasers, yes hackers do believe in this game believe it or not. The fact that there are hackers and gold bots isn't a player issue, would you say?

Display More

First of all your statement that you need 200 WUC to +9 is a LIE!!! i made 100+ tries from +7 to +8 thats alone more than 300 WUC and guess what?My weapon is +7.

I agree with you tho that they need to bring back the old drop rate and CMON release loyalty system already at least to be more easy to enchant

Display More

It's not necessarily that my statement is false, it's completely player based luck. From videos I've seen of people maxing most people have had 200-300 WUC's to reach +9. You're just unlucky like me lmao

Ok, let's start slow and simple because some people are unable to comprehend the nature or implications of what they are saying.

DZ Generation

How is this generated?

For bots and intensive player farmers.

- Sell Items to NPC

Slow, inefficient. Most items yield nothing, until GC. Doing GC efficiently requires +ing weapons, high time investment, little returns.

- Farm DZ

Efficient in parallel, especially ark ship @ 100k/run @ 6-8minutes with thousands.

Inclusive, cores. Inclusive, star cards. Inclusive, soul fizz. All items are high liquidity, easily burnt by players, and leave DZ behind. Can also dismantle weapons for WUCs, but rates were nerfed to counter bots.

- Farm GC, Farm Rookie Raid

Labor-intensive, requires mechanic skill, rate-limiting. 300-400k DZ per run for rookie raid, nothing for GC. Inconsistent returns, RNG-based. Unlikely.

For common players.

Selling Soulcash

Very slow to receive DZ, requires listing items en masse, and barely can yield you more than hundreds of millions. Not enough to buy out the entire 300-500 daily WUC supply on the market at higher price points. Also doesn't generate any DZ into the economy. Also requires silver&gold VIP to not lose DZ. F2P often pay worse rates than gold bots. For comparability, one has to go to standalone norway rates. High trouble, high barrier.

Sell Loot Items

All players need WUCs, more than ECs. Most people are okay with semi-lined stat rolls. Selling fragments is a boon, since it remains- while WUCs get burnt. So do ECs. Neither of these activities generate much DZ on their own. 100k per run @ 400EP x 5 + 800EP x 2 day on weekend / 30 = 120 runs = 12M DZ per week.

Selling BPs are okay, but most people need BPs to craft. Selling cores same thing, most people need to gear up. None of these activities increases DZ generation significantly.

Do most players play alt accounts and farm intensively? No.

Are most players on S/G VIP? No. Sample? Look at any town, and count the number of players

with soulcash items equipped on them. The ratio is almost 1:100 or 1:50 for lower leveled towns, and only goes up higher in Ruin Fortress & Grand Citadel - which is where most of the active playerbase generating significant DZ are. 2-7 VIPs sold a day is nowhere near enough to spawn billions of DZ into the economy as a single player.

Do you see people spamming to buy S&G VIPs on every server to farm DZ or is it that one lone person whose S/G VIP expired?

Whether you sample from steam forums, or you compare the relative amount of people from Rucco Town, to Candus City to Grace City to Ruin Fortress to Grand Citadel; you see the same pyramidal distribution of hours played to level proportonality of most people progressing no more than Candus City, and for the active level 55s, most are still in rookie raids/ark ship. Open any party list, and you will see this. The few '50-160' core GC players on the server cannot generate enough DZ alone to pump billions, it is simple math. 150 x 12M/week = 1.8 billion.

Notice how the bot site offerings on the other hand, go from 100M, 500M, 1B, 2B, 5B, 10B, 20B and higher every week.

It is also true that, higher time investment = higher wall/barrier of entry for players, and thus has an inverse relationship on # of players available to play the game at full dedication.

Are you seeing more cash shop items every week? Or are they all from one seller with similar listing times? Chances are, there are less than before.

So... if the individual player isn't spamming blueprints, quality +7 weapons or uber stat gears, and they are not selling soulcash, how are they getting billions of DZ to buy all these WUCs?

Suppose Tim and Todd have 100 DZ each, no DZ is generated into the economy; Each can farm 2 WUCs per week. Tim keeps all his and wants Todd's. The maximum price Todd can put is 50 DZ each. Nobody values all their DZ into 2 WUCs. So he puts it at 10 DZ each, or 20 (20% of both person's DZ).

Now Todd has 120 DZ and Tim has 80. How can Todd farm more next week, and increase prices. He can't.

Now Suppose Tim and Todd make 20DZ/per week.

The economy after one week is 200 DZ + 20 DZ x 2 or 240 DZ. So now, Todd can list for 60 DZ up maximum, or alternatively he can reprice them at 12 DZ each. Right a 20% increase.

Next week, the economy has 280 DZ, assuming no one buys anything.

Tim can afford more and will buy all of Tod's (4 WUCs @ (140/4 DZ)) if he really wants it. Regardless, inflation goes up quick because the numerator ratio to denominator is high.

Now suppose they each start with 10000 DZ each, and can only farm 20 DZ each. WUCs start @ 500 DZ each for 1,000 DZ or 10% of their current "net" worth. 11020 Tod, 9020 Tim.

Will WUCs increase in price very fast? No. Can you go from 2.5m to 50m in a few weeks? No. Not without a spike in the playerbase, or players massively start changing their farming behaviour to making, jee... how many alts per day? How many hours? Increased efficiency?

Do you see clear times dropping by 50% week per week? Do you see all your friends, guild mates, people on discord, people on the server changing to 2, 3, 4, 5 alts to massively farm DZ into the economy at a whopping 125k per ark ship run or 300k per rookie raid just to buy 1 WUC? LOL.

Everyone's favourite curve.

Month 1 - $0.95/mil or $950 per bil (feb/mar)

Month 1.5 - $0.24/mil or $240 per bil

Month 2 - $0.13/mil or $130 per bil (apr)

Month 2.5 - $0.10/mil or $104 per bil

Month 3 - $0.07/mil or $70 per bil

Month 3.5 - $0.03/mil or $33 per bil

Month 4 - $0.01/mil or $14 per bil

So, your average person can now whale on minimum wage, with EUR being stronger than USD. No one saw this coming. Not even on price standardization rates on all servers for the two biggest bot site contenders. Def, 10/10. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Do you even know what theory means? It has the highest explanatory power over all other technical words; facts, data, model. Does it look like I'm predicating my assertions on 'hunches' and oh

[The Apple sat on the table. I saw it. I left. I came back. It moved.]

[Induction, it either moved by itself, it moved due to environmental circumstances or someone moved it]

[Deduction, window closed. No wind. Asked people around, no earthquake. Someone moved it]

[NOPE! Just a 'theory', just a 'wild guess']

Anyways, lets not deviate too far. Whether you are on forums, in-game, or the market economy - all measures correlate to population decline. Even old guild channels. And so called ''top guilds''. Just glance at recruitment area.

Before you go on claiming standalone players are more than steam players; let us ask. Why do small publishers without large gaming portals put their games on steam in the first place? Obviously, to attract a larger playerbase than their own native playerbase. Does it make any sense to pay royalties to steam for your microtransactions (look at SC rates on steam vs client) if you can attract a larger playerbase yourself? No.

Starting on March... April already...

Server Transfer/Server Merge

Fusión de servidores desarrollada

Les serveurs se vident ...

Merge dei server

That is right, I am simply imagining things. More level 55 players appear out of nowhere with epic gear clearing things in 2 minutes on 5 alts on all servers creating BILLIONS of DZ, when the maximum you can make is 12m/week with GC or 48m/week with rookie raid. Absolutely makes sense, that people could generate so much DZ to increase prices and afford to buy them INSTANTLY. Everyday, mega-day, ya-day.

Notice how the equilibrum prices on JP and KR server are around ~1 RUN. 500k/DZ raids. They have better gear than us, they have better upgrade rates than us, and their price levels FOR ALL ITEMS, even if you put the argument "wuc upgrade chance op" are LOWER. So lower DZ circulation. Gee. They also are 1-2 years ahead of us! Their DZ supply? OPPP OPPPP 10/10. No, it is equal to linear intrinsic rate of inflation with playerbase being stable.

Don't get me started. KR GC population is equivalent or equal to NA, or even greater. They also clear more D6 bosses (3) without organization. So no, NA and EN does not have 100x imaginary population farming DZ at will.

Notice how the bots always use +DZ titles.

Notice how on the TW version, prices are exactly like NA.

This guy? Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Just to put the nail in the coffin, I interviewed the two most prominent sellers on their business plans / how they get dz. Whether they have operators operating virtual machines/proxies bots of hundreds/thousands or they hire $0.01/hr labor, who knows (probably not the latter). I mean, they have spam bots in Rucco before the technical measures, right? You need to feed people who spam, pay for internet, space, etc. Kinda, you know, not 'free'? So.. your wage went from $900/month from bil dz farm(on 3-4 alts) to $60? What?

Back when the average player barely had 30m, let alone 1b; simply ask the average whale how they get the most DZ, surprising surprising? Do you think they farmed hours and hours with their measly grey D/C/B rank for their SS, +9 tagged weapon, ECs and everything else? Obviously not.

What happens in real life when you give free money (bank loans @ no interest) and generate infinite $ to buy infinite stocks, like how people buy DZ from bots to make WUCs go from 2.5m to 30-50m overnight.

Note how the fastest efficiency gains are first few weeks. Make 100k a day to 5m per day for the entire playerbase, so obviously the inflation on KR and JP corresponds directly to price levels without gold bots spamming megaphones.

Do businesses intentionally do things at greater cost than profit in the long run? Some do, but if they do, they disappear, quick. So do you think the frequency of megaphones of 6-15/hr is not directly attributable to the profitability of DZ selling? Or...

do you still think...

on 6/2 individual players on all server of the top 10-20 richest congregated to do mass price manipulation by farming tons of alts on SG/VP enough to buy out the entire market 10x over to increase prices at these levels over the last 15 days or is it perhaps.. $70/32 to $14 per billion that makes it so affordable for everyone? Does it even make any sense to you personally, to buy things at a low price, sell for higher - and then when primal comes, buy them at even higher? I mean some people are idiots, sure - but if you have a high income to spend on a game, I'm ascertain someone can more intelligent than this.

Price manipulation entails, well, crashing the market and mass selling things, spreading rumors and seeing prices go down when you want it to. If it always goes up, how exactly are you manipulating. ????

Gameforge's revenue model for whaling, yup. Play MMOS for achievement, exploration and social aspect. Well which one gives you most $?

The thoughts that some people put in their posts, Nitros, yup. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Apparently the average player who is geared doesn't care about their time either. So WUCs needed? Nah. +6 free it.

How many people want to spend an extra 12-20 minutes per run (x 6, or x13 on weekends)? Time spent sleeping, studying, doing excerise, cooking, meeting your significant other.

Let's not forget. KR. JP.

10% upgrade event. 3% favourability system for NPC.

Here. 0.5% rates.

Demand for DZ there? Not so much.

Demand here? Sign me up, neeeed that +9 wpn kkkk.

Over there? CS items 1/3 1/4 1/5 here.

Motives, intentions affect users, no?

Lastly, note how gold, something limited requires more currency, by the day. Yet can buy you the same good stuff as yesterday.

Quite similar to weapon upgrade chips and energy converters, which can 'hardly' be mined and is consumed immediately (electronics, medical devices / to actually play the game at a decent speed and make it enjoyable) can buy you the same stuff day after day, but DZ doesn't. I wonder why...

Maybe I should model WUCs/ECs index to DZ... (it's not even at 1%, probably at 0.1%) nah. It's just theory, not fact. Wild guess.

My god do I not want to read all of that

Quote from Rin

Ok, let's start slow and simple because some people are unable to comprehend the nature or implications of what they are saying.

DZ Generation

How is this generated?

For bots and intensive player farmers.

- Sell Items to NPC

Slow, inefficient. Most items yield nothing, until GC. Doing GC efficiently requires +ing weapons, high time investment, little returns.

- Farm DZ

Efficient in parallel, especially ark ship @ 100k/run @ 6-8minutes with thousands.

Inclusive, cores. Inclusive, star cards. Inclusive, soul fizz. All items are high liquidity, easily burnt by players, and leave DZ behind. Can also dismantle weapons for WUCs, but rates were nerfed to counter bots.

- Farm GC, Farm Rookie Raid

Labor-intensive, requires mechanic skill, rate-limiting. 300-400k DZ per run for rookie raid, nothing for GC. Inconsistent returns, RNG-based. Unlikely.

For common players.

Selling Soulcash

Very slow to receive DZ, requires listing items en masse, and barely can yield you more than hundreds of millions. Not enough to buy out the entire 300-500 daily WUC supply on the market at higher price points. Also doesn't generate any DZ into the economy. Also requires silver&gold VIP to not lose DZ. F2P often pay worse rates than gold bots. For comparability, one has to go to standalone norway rates. High trouble, high barrier.

Sell Loot Items

All players need WUCs, more than ECs. Most people are okay with semi-lined stat rolls. Selling fragments is a boon, since it remains- while WUCs get burnt. So do ECs. Neither of these activities generate much DZ on their own. 100k per run @ 400EP x 5 + 800EP x 2 day on weekend / 30 = 120 runs = 12M DZ per week.

Selling BPs are okay, but most people need BPs to craft. Selling cores same thing, most people need to gear up. None of these activities increases DZ generation significantly.

Do most players play alt accounts and farm intensively? No.

Are most players on S/G VIP? No. Sample? Look at any town, and count the number of players

with soulcash items equipped on them. The ratio is almost 1:100 or 1:50 for lower leveled towns, and only goes up higher in Ruin Fortress & Grand Citadel - which is where most of the active playerbase generating significant DZ are. 2-7 VIPs sold a day is nowhere near enough to spawn billions of DZ into the economy as a single player.

Do you see people spamming to buy S&G VIPs on every server to farm DZ or is it that one lone person whose S/G VIP expired?

Whether you sample from steam forums, or you compare the relative amount of people from Rucco Town, to Candus City to Grace City to Ruin Fortress to Grand Citadel; you see the same pyramidal distribution of hours played to level proportonality of most people progressing no more than Candus City, and for the active level 55s, most are still in rookie raids/ark ship. Open any party list, and you will see this. The few '50-160' core GC players on the server cannot generate enough DZ alone to pump billions, it is simple math. 150 x 12M/week = 1.8 billion.

Notice how the bot site offerings on the other hand, go from 100M, 500M, 1B, 2B, 5B, 10B, 20B and higher every week.

It is also true that, higher time investment = higher wall/barrier of entry for players, and thus has an inverse relationship on # of players available to play the game at full dedication.

Are you seeing more cash shop items every week? Or are they all from one seller with similar listing times? Chances are, there are less than before.

So... if the individual player isn't spamming blueprints, quality +7 weapons or uber stat gears, and they are not selling soulcash, how are they getting billions of DZ to buy all these WUCs?

Suppose Tim and Todd have 100 DZ each, no DZ is generated into the economy; Each can farm 2 WUCs per week. Tim keeps all his and wants Todd's. The maximum price Todd can put is 50 DZ each. Nobody values all their DZ into 2 WUCs. So he puts it at 10 DZ each, or 20 (20% of both person's DZ).

Now Todd has 120 DZ and Tim has 80. How can Todd farm more next week, and increase prices. He can't.

Now Suppose Tim and Todd make 20DZ/per week.

The economy after one week is 200 DZ + 20 DZ x 2 or 240 DZ. So now, Todd can list for 60 DZ up maximum, or alternatively he can reprice them at 12 DZ each. Right a 20% increase.

Next week, the economy has 280 DZ, assuming no one buys anything.

Tim can afford more and will buy all of Tod's (4 WUCs @ (140/4 DZ)) if he really wants it. Regardless, inflation goes up quick because the numerator ratio to denominator is high.

Now suppose they each start with 10000 DZ each, and can only farm 20 DZ each. WUCs start @ 500 DZ each for 1,000 DZ or 10% of their current "net" worth. 11020 Tod, 9020 Tim.

Will WUCs increase in price very fast? No. Can you go from 2.5m to 50m in a few weeks? No. Not without a spike in the playerbase, or players massively start changing their farming behaviour to making, jee... how many alts per day? How many hours? Increased efficiency?

Do you see clear times dropping by 50% week per week? Do you see all your friends, guild mates, people on discord, people on the server changing to 2, 3, 4, 5 alts to massively farm DZ into the economy at a whopping 125k per ark ship run or 300k per rookie raid just to buy 1 WUC? LOL.

Everyone's favourite curve.

Month 1 - $0.95/mil or $950 per bil (feb/mar)

Month 1.5 - $0.24/mil or $240 per bil

Month 2 - $0.13/mil or $130 per bil (apr)

Month 2.5 - $0.10/mil or $104 per bil

Month 3 - $0.07/mil or $70 per bil

Month 3.5 - $0.01/mil or $14 per bil

So, your average person can now whale on minimum wage, with EUR being stronger than USD. No one saw this coming. Not even on price standardization rates on all servers for the two biggest bot site contenders. Def, 10/10. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Do you even know what theory means? It has the highest explanatory power over all other technical words; facts, data, model. Does it look like I'm predicating my assertions on 'hunches' and oh

[The Apple sat on the table. I saw it. I left. I came back. It moved.]

[Induction, it either moved by itself, it moved due to environmental circumstances or someone moved it]

[Deduction, window closed. No wind. Asked people around, no earthquake. Someone moved it]

[NOPE! Just a 'theory', just a 'wild guess']

Anyways, lets not deviate too far. Whether you are on forums, in-game, or the market economy - all measures correlate to population decline. Even old guild channels. And so called ''top guilds''. Just glance at recruitment area.

Before you go on claiming standalone players are more than steam players; let us ask. Why do small publishers without large gaming portals put their games on steam in the first place? Obviously, to attract a larger playerbase than their own native playerbase. Does it make any sense to pay royalties to steam for your microtransactions (look at SC rates on steam vs client) if you can attract a larger playerbase yourself? No.

Starting on March... April already...

Server Transfer/Server Merge

Fusión de servidores desarrollada

Les serveurs se vident ...

Merge dei server

That is right, I am simply imagining things. More level 55 players appear out of nowhere with epic gear clearing things in 2 minutes on 5 alts on all servers creating BILLIONS of DZ, when the maximum you can make is 12m/week with GC or 48m/week with rookie raid. Absolutely makes sense, that people could generate so much DZ to increase prices and afford to buy them INSTANTLY. Everyday, mega-day, ya-day.

Notice how the equilibrum prices on JP and KR server are around ~1 RUN. 500k/DZ raids. They have better gear than us, they have better upgrade rates than us, and their price levels FOR ALL ITEMS, even if you put the argument "wuc upgrade chance op" are LOWER. So lower DZ circulation. Gee. They also are 1-2 years ahead of us! Their DZ supply? OPPP OPPPP 10/10. No, it is equal to linear intrinsic rate of inflation with playerbase being stable.

Don't get me started. KR GC population is equivalent or equal to NA, or even greater. They also clear more D6 bosses (3) without organization. So no, NA and EN does not have 100x imaginary population farming DZ at will.

Notice how the bots always use +DZ titles.

Notice how on the TW version, prices are exactly like NA.

This guy? Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Just to put the nail in the coffin, I interviewed the two most prominent sellers on their business plans / how they get dz. Whether they have operators operating virtual machines/proxies bots of hundreds/thousands or they hire $0.01/hr labor, who knows (probably not the latter). I mean, they have spam bots in Rucco before the technical measures, right? You need to feed people who spam, pay for internet, space, etc. Kinda, you know, not 'free'? So.. your wage went from $900/month from bil dz farm(on 3-4 alts) to $60? What?

Back when the average player barely had 30m, let alone 1b; simply ask the average whale how they get the most DZ, surprising surprising? Do you think they farmed hours and hours with their measly grey D/C/B rank for their SS, +9 tagged weapon, ECs and everything else? Obviously not.

What happens in real life when you give free money (bank loans @ no interest) and generate infinite $ to buy infinite stocks, like how people buy DZ from bots to make WUCs go from 2.5m to 30-50m overnight.

Note how the fastest efficiency gains are first few weeks. Make 100k a day to 5m per day for the entire playerbase, so obviously the inflation on KR and JP corresponds directly to price levels without gold bots spamming megaphones.

Do businesses intentionally do things at greater cost than profit in the long run? Some do, but if they do, they disappear, quick. So do you think the frequency of megaphones of 6-15/hr is not directly attributable to the profitability of DZ selling? Or...

do you still think...

on 6/2 individual players on all server of the top 10-20 richest congregated to do mass price manipulation by farming tons of alts on SG/VP enough to buy out the entire market 10x over to increase prices at these levels over the last 15 days or is it perhaps.. $70/32 to $14 per billion that makes it so affordable for everyone? Does it even make any sense to you personally, to buy things at a low price, sell for higher - and then when primal comes, buy them at even higher? I mean some people are idiots, sure - but if you have a high income to spend on a game, I'm ascertain someone can more intelligent than this.

Price manipulation entails, well, crashing the market and mass selling things, spreading rumors and seeing prices go down when you want it to. If it always goes up, how exactly are you manipulating. ????

Gameforge's revenue model for whaling, yup. Play MMOS for achievement, exploration and social aspect. Well which one gives you most $?

The thoughts that some people put in their posts, Nitros, yup. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Display More

Clearly you don't understand how ecomonocomics work, it's clearly player base creating and flooding market with dz. Also earth is flat.

Otherwise, nothing to add. +1

Quote from Galpatchie

Quote from Rin

Ok, let's start slow and simple because some people are unable to comprehend the nature or implications of what they are saying.

DZ Generation

How is this generated?

For bots and intensive player farmers.

- Sell Items to NPC

Slow, inefficient. Most items yield nothing, until GC. Doing GC efficiently requires +ing weapons, high time investment, little returns.

- Farm DZ

Efficient in parallel, especially ark ship @ 100k/run @ 6-8minutes with thousands.

Inclusive, cores. Inclusive, star cards. Inclusive, soul fizz. All items are high liquidity, easily burnt by players, and leave DZ behind. Can also dismantle weapons for WUCs, but rates were nerfed to counter bots.

- Farm GC, Farm Rookie Raid

Labor-intensive, requires mechanic skill, rate-limiting. 300-400k DZ per run for rookie raid, nothing for GC. Inconsistent returns, RNG-based. Unlikely.

For common players.

Selling Soulcash

Very slow to receive DZ, requires listing items en masse, and barely can yield you more than hundreds of millions. Not enough to buy out the entire 300-500 daily WUC supply on the market at higher price points. Also doesn't generate any DZ into the economy. Also requires silver&gold VIP to not lose DZ. F2P often pay worse rates than gold bots. For comparability, one has to go to standalone norway rates. High trouble, high barrier.

Sell Loot Items

All players need WUCs, more than ECs. Most people are okay with semi-lined stat rolls. Selling fragments is a boon, since it remains- while WUCs get burnt. So do ECs. Neither of these activities generate much DZ on their own. 100k per run @ 400EP x 5 + 800EP x 2 day on weekend / 30 = 120 runs = 12M DZ per week.

Selling BPs are okay, but most people need BPs to craft. Selling cores same thing, most people need to gear up. None of these activities increases DZ generation significantly.

Do most players play alt accounts and farm intensively? No.

Are most players on S/G VIP? No. Sample? Look at any town, and count the number of players

with soulcash items equipped on them. The ratio is almost 1:100 or 1:50 for lower leveled towns, and only goes up higher in Ruin Fortress & Grand Citadel - which is where most of the active playerbase generating significant DZ are. 2-7 VIPs sold a day is nowhere near enough to spawn billions of DZ into the economy as a single player.

Do you see people spamming to buy S&G VIPs on every server to farm DZ or is it that one lone person whose S/G VIP expired?

Whether you sample from steam forums, or you compare the relative amount of people from Rucco Town, to Candus City to Grace City to Ruin Fortress to Grand Citadel; you see the same pyramidal distribution of hours played to level proportonality of most people progressing no more than Candus City, and for the active level 55s, most are still in rookie raids/ark ship. Open any party list, and you will see this. The few '50-160' core GC players on the server cannot generate enough DZ alone to pump billions, it is simple math. 150 x 12M/week = 1.8 billion.

Notice how the bot site offerings on the other hand, go from 100M, 500M, 1B, 2B, 5B, 10B, 20B and higher every week.

It is also true that, higher time investment = higher wall/barrier of entry for players, and thus has an inverse relationship on # of players available to play the game at full dedication.

Are you seeing more cash shop items every week? Or are they all from one seller with similar listing times? Chances are, there are less than before.

So... if the individual player isn't spamming blueprints, quality +7 weapons or uber stat gears, and they are not selling soulcash, how are they getting billions of DZ to buy all these WUCs?

Suppose Tim and Todd have 100 DZ each, no DZ is generated into the economy; Each can farm 2 WUCs per week. Tim keeps all his and wants Todd's. The maximum price Todd can put is 50 DZ each. Nobody values all their DZ into 2 WUCs. So he puts it at 10 DZ each, or 20 (20% of both person's DZ).

Now Todd has 120 DZ and Tim has 80. How can Todd farm more next week, and increase prices. He can't.

Now Suppose Tim and Todd make 20DZ/per week.

The economy after one week is 200 DZ + 20 DZ x 2 or 240 DZ. So now, Todd can list for 60 DZ up maximum, or alternatively he can reprice them at 12 DZ each. Right a 20% increase.

Next week, the economy has 280 DZ, assuming no one buys anything.

Tim can afford more and will buy all of Tod's (4 WUCs @ (140/4 DZ)) if he really wants it. Regardless, inflation goes up quick because the numerator ratio to denominator is high.

Now suppose they each start with 10000 DZ each, and can only farm 20 DZ each. WUCs start @ 500 DZ each for 1,000 DZ or 10% of their current "net" worth. 11020 Tod, 9020 Tim.

Will WUCs increase in price very fast? No. Can you go from 2.5m to 50m in a few weeks? No. Not without a spike in the playerbase, or players massively start changing their farming behaviour to making, jee... how many alts per day? How many hours? Increased efficiency?

Do you see clear times dropping by 50% week per week? Do you see all your friends, guild mates, people on discord, people on the server changing to 2, 3, 4, 5 alts to massively farm DZ into the economy at a whopping 125k per ark ship run or 300k per rookie raid just to buy 1 WUC? LOL.

Everyone's favourite curve.

Month 1 - $0.95/mil or $950 per bil (feb/mar)

Month 1.5 - $0.24/mil or $240 per bil

Month 2 - $0.13/mil or $130 per bil (apr)

Month 2.5 - $0.10/mil or $104 per bil

Month 3 - $0.07/mil or $70 per bil

Month 3.5 - $0.01/mil or $14 per bil

So, your average person can now whale on minimum wage, with EUR being stronger than USD. No one saw this coming. Not even on price standardization rates on all servers for the two biggest bot site contenders. Def, 10/10. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Do you even know what theory means? It has the highest explanatory power over all other technical words; facts, data, model. Does it look like I'm predicating my assertions on 'hunches' and oh

[The Apple sat on the table. I saw it. I left. I came back. It moved.]

[Induction, it either moved by itself, it moved due to environmental circumstances or someone moved it]

[Deduction, window closed. No wind. Asked people around, no earthquake. Someone moved it]

[NOPE! Just a 'theory', just a 'wild guess']

Anyways, lets not deviate too far. Whether you are on forums, in-game, or the market economy - all measures correlate to population decline. Even old guild channels. And so called ''top guilds''. Just glance at recruitment area.

Before you go on claiming standalone players are more than steam players; let us ask. Why do small publishers without large gaming portals put their games on steam in the first place? Obviously, to attract a larger playerbase than their own native playerbase. Does it make any sense to pay royalties to steam for your microtransactions (look at SC rates on steam vs client) if you can attract a larger playerbase yourself? No.

Starting on March... April already...

Server Transfer/Server Merge

Fusión de servidores desarrollada

Les serveurs se vident ...

Merge dei server

That is right, I am simply imagining things. More level 55 players appear out of nowhere with epic gear clearing things in 2 minutes on 5 alts on all servers creating BILLIONS of DZ, when the maximum you can make is 12m/week with GC or 48m/week with rookie raid. Absolutely makes sense, that people could generate so much DZ to increase prices and afford to buy them INSTANTLY. Everyday, mega-day, ya-day.

Notice how the equilibrum prices on JP and KR server are around ~1 RUN. 500k/DZ raids. They have better gear than us, they have better upgrade rates than us, and their price levels FOR ALL ITEMS, even if you put the argument "wuc upgrade chance op" are LOWER. So lower DZ circulation. Gee. They also are 1-2 years ahead of us! Their DZ supply? OPPP OPPPP 10/10. No, it is equal to linear intrinsic rate of inflation with playerbase being stable.

Don't get me started. KR GC population is equivalent or equal to NA, or even greater. They also clear more D6 bosses (3) without organization. So no, NA and EN does not have 100x imaginary population farming DZ at will.

Notice how the bots always use +DZ titles.

Notice how on the TW version, prices are exactly like NA.

This guy? Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Just to put the nail in the coffin, I interviewed the two most prominent sellers on their business plans / how they get dz. Whether they have operators operating virtual machines/proxies bots of hundreds/thousands or they hire $0.01/hr labor, who knows (probably not the latter). I mean, they have spam bots in Rucco before the technical measures, right? You need to feed people who spam, pay for internet, space, etc. Kinda, you know, not 'free'? So.. your wage went from $900/month from bil dz farm(on 3-4 alts) to $60? What?

Back when the average player barely had 30m, let alone 1b; simply ask the average whale how they get the most DZ, surprising surprising? Do you think they farmed hours and hours with their measly grey D/C/B rank for their SS, +9 tagged weapon, ECs and everything else? Obviously not.

What happens in real life when you give free money (bank loans @ no interest) and generate infinite $ to buy infinite stocks, like how people buy DZ from bots to make WUCs go from 2.5m to 30-50m overnight.

Note how the fastest efficiency gains are first few weeks. Make 100k a day to 5m per day for the entire playerbase, so obviously the inflation on KR and JP corresponds directly to price levels without gold bots spamming megaphones.

Do businesses intentionally do things at greater cost than profit in the long run? Some do, but if they do, they disappear, quick. So do you think the frequency of megaphones of 6-15/hr is not directly attributable to the profitability of DZ selling? Or...

do you still think...

on 6/2 individual players on all server of the top 10-20 richest congregated to do mass price manipulation by farming tons of alts on SG/VP enough to buy out the entire market 10x over to increase prices at these levels over the last 15 days or is it perhaps.. $70/32 to $14 per billion that makes it so affordable for everyone? Does it even make any sense to you personally, to buy things at a low price, sell for higher - and then when primal comes, buy them at even higher? I mean some people are idiots, sure - but if you have a high income to spend on a game, I'm ascertain someone can more intelligent than this.

Price manipulation entails, well, crashing the market and mass selling things, spreading rumors and seeing prices go down when you want it to. If it always goes up, how exactly are you manipulating. ????

Gameforge's revenue model for whaling, yup. Play MMOS for achievement, exploration and social aspect. Well which one gives you most $?

The thoughts that some people put in their posts, Nitros, yup. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Display More

Clearly you don't understand how ecomonocomics work, it's clearly player base creating and flooding market with dz. Also earth is flat.

Otherwise, nothing to add. +1

Display More

you actually read it o.o

FINALLY COMMUNITY REACTION

But we need more resonance tho to make Gameforge DO SOMETHING except adding new costumes to the CashSHop

The situtation is SUPER ridiculous

You do not announce these types of solutions until they are finalized and implemented.

Quote from Rin

Ok, let's start slow and simple because some people are unable to comprehend the nature or implications of what they are saying.

DZ Generation

How is this generated?

For bots and intensive player farmers.

- Sell Items to NPC

Slow, inefficient. Most items yield nothing, until GC. Doing GC efficiently requires +ing weapons, high time investment, little returns.

- Farm DZ

Efficient in parallel, especially ark ship @ 100k/run @ 6-8minutes with thousands.

Inclusive, cores. Inclusive, star cards. Inclusive, soul fizz. All items are high liquidity, easily burnt by players, and leave DZ behind. Can also dismantle weapons for WUCs, but rates were nerfed to counter bots.

- Farm GC, Farm Rookie Raid

Labor-intensive, requires mechanic skill, rate-limiting. 300-400k DZ per run for rookie raid, nothing for GC. Inconsistent returns, RNG-based. Unlikely.

For common players.

Selling Soulcash

Very slow to receive DZ, requires listing items en masse, and barely can yield you more than hundreds of millions. Not enough to buy out the entire 300-500 daily WUC supply on the market at higher price points. Also doesn't generate any DZ into the economy. Also requires silver&gold VIP to not lose DZ. F2P often pay worse rates than gold bots. For comparability, one has to go to standalone norway rates. High trouble, high barrier.

Sell Loot Items

All players need WUCs, more than ECs. Most people are okay with semi-lined stat rolls. Selling fragments is a boon, since it remains- while WUCs get burnt. So do ECs. Neither of these activities generate much DZ on their own. 100k per run @ 400EP x 5 + 800EP x 2 day on weekend / 30 = 120 runs = 12M DZ per week.

Selling BPs are okay, but most people need BPs to craft. Selling cores same thing, most people need to gear up. None of these activities increases DZ generation significantly.

Do most players play alt accounts and farm intensively? No.

Are most players on S/G VIP? No. Sample? Look at any town, and count the number of players

with soulcash items equipped on them. The ratio is almost 1:100 or 1:50 for lower leveled towns, and only goes up higher in Ruin Fortress & Grand Citadel - which is where most of the active playerbase generating significant DZ are. 2-7 VIPs sold a day is nowhere near enough to spawn billions of DZ into the economy as a single player.

Do you see people spamming to buy S&G VIPs on every server to farm DZ or is it that one lone person whose S/G VIP expired?

Whether you sample from steam forums, or you compare the relative amount of people from Rucco Town, to Candus City to Grace City to Ruin Fortress to Grand Citadel; you see the same pyramidal distribution of hours played to level proportonality of most people progressing no more than Candus City, and for the active level 55s, most are still in rookie raids/ark ship. Open any party list, and you will see this. The few '50-160' core GC players on the server cannot generate enough DZ alone to pump billions, it is simple math. 150 x 12M/week = 1.8 billion.

Notice how the bot site offerings on the other hand, go from 100M, 500M, 1B, 2B, 5B, 10B, 20B and higher every week.

It is also true that, higher time investment = higher wall/barrier of entry for players, and thus has an inverse relationship on # of players available to play the game at full dedication.

Are you seeing more cash shop items every week? Or are they all from one seller with similar listing times? Chances are, there are less than before.

So... if the individual player isn't spamming blueprints, quality +7 weapons or uber stat gears, and they are not selling soulcash, how are they getting billions of DZ to buy all these WUCs?

Suppose Tim and Todd have 100 DZ each, no DZ is generated into the economy; Each can farm 2 WUCs per week. Tim keeps all his and wants Todd's. The maximum price Todd can put is 50 DZ each. Nobody values all their DZ into 2 WUCs. So he puts it at 10 DZ each, or 20 (20% of both person's DZ).

Now Todd has 120 DZ and Tim has 80. How can Todd farm more next week, and increase prices. He can't.

Now Suppose Tim and Todd make 20DZ/per week.

The economy after one week is 200 DZ + 20 DZ x 2 or 240 DZ. So now, Todd can list for 60 DZ up maximum, or alternatively he can reprice them at 12 DZ each. Right a 20% increase.

Next week, the economy has 280 DZ, assuming no one buys anything.

Tim can afford more and will buy all of Tod's (4 WUCs @ (140/4 DZ)) if he really wants it. Regardless, inflation goes up quick because the numerator ratio to denominator is high.

Now suppose they each start with 10000 DZ each, and can only farm 20 DZ each. WUCs start @ 500 DZ each for 1,000 DZ or 10% of their current "net" worth. 11020 Tod, 9020 Tim.

Will WUCs increase in price very fast? No. Can you go from 2.5m to 50m in a few weeks? No. Not without a spike in the playerbase, or players massively start changing their farming behaviour to making, jee... how many alts per day? How many hours? Increased efficiency?

Do you see clear times dropping by 50% week per week? Do you see all your friends, guild mates, people on discord, people on the server changing to 2, 3, 4, 5 alts to massively farm DZ into the economy at a whopping 125k per ark ship run or 300k per rookie raid just to buy 1 WUC? LOL.

Everyone's favourite curve.

Month 1 - $0.95/mil or $950 per bil (feb/mar)

Month 1.5 - $0.24/mil or $240 per bil

Month 2 - $0.13/mil or $130 per bil (apr)

Month 2.5 - $0.10/mil or $104 per bil

Month 3 - $0.07/mil or $70 per bil

Month 3.5 - $0.03/mil or $33 per bil

Month 4 - $0.01/mil or $14 per bil

So, your average person can now whale on minimum wage, with EUR being stronger than USD. No one saw this coming. Not even on price standardization rates on all servers for the two biggest bot site contenders. Def, 10/10. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Do you even know what theory means? It has the highest explanatory power over all other technical words; facts, data, model. Does it look like I'm predicating my assertions on 'hunches' and oh

[The Apple sat on the table. I saw it. I left. I came back. It moved.]

[Induction, it either moved by itself, it moved due to environmental circumstances or someone moved it]

[Deduction, window closed. No wind. Asked people around, no earthquake. Someone moved it]

[NOPE! Just a 'theory', just a 'wild guess']

Anyways, lets not deviate too far. Whether you are on forums, in-game, or the market economy - all measures correlate to population decline. Even old guild channels. And so called ''top guilds''. Just glance at recruitment area.

Before you go on claiming standalone players are more than steam players; let us ask. Why do small publishers without large gaming portals put their games on steam in the first place? Obviously, to attract a larger playerbase than their own native playerbase. Does it make any sense to pay royalties to steam for your microtransactions (look at SC rates on steam vs client) if you can attract a larger playerbase yourself? No.

Starting on March... April already...

Server Transfer/Server Merge

Fusión de servidores desarrollada

Les serveurs se vident ...

Merge dei server

That is right, I am simply imagining things. More level 55 players appear out of nowhere with epic gear clearing things in 2 minutes on 5 alts on all servers creating BILLIONS of DZ, when the maximum you can make is 12m/week with GC or 48m/week with rookie raid. Absolutely makes sense, that people could generate so much DZ to increase prices and afford to buy them INSTANTLY. Everyday, mega-day, ya-day.

Notice how the equilibrum prices on JP and KR server are around ~1 RUN. 500k/DZ raids. They have better gear than us, they have better upgrade rates than us, and their price levels FOR ALL ITEMS, even if you put the argument "wuc upgrade chance op" are LOWER. So lower DZ circulation. Gee. They also are 1-2 years ahead of us! Their DZ supply? OPPP OPPPP 10/10. No, it is equal to linear intrinsic rate of inflation with playerbase being stable.

Don't get me started. KR GC population is equivalent or equal to NA, or even greater. They also clear more D6 bosses (3) without organization. So no, NA and EN does not have 100x imaginary population farming DZ at will.

Notice how the bots always use +DZ titles.

Notice how on the TW version, prices are exactly like NA.

This guy? Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Just to put the nail in the coffin, I interviewed the two most prominent sellers on their business plans / how they get dz. Whether they have operators operating virtual machines/proxies bots of hundreds/thousands or they hire $0.01/hr labor, who knows (probably not the latter). I mean, they have spam bots in Rucco before the technical measures, right? You need to feed people who spam, pay for internet, space, etc. Kinda, you know, not 'free'? So.. your wage went from $900/month from bil dz farm(on 3-4 alts) to $60? What?

Back when the average player barely had 30m, let alone 1b; simply ask the average whale how they get the most DZ, surprising surprising? Do you think they farmed hours and hours with their measly grey D/C/B rank for their SS, +9 tagged weapon, ECs and everything else? Obviously not.

What happens in real life when you give free money (bank loans @ no interest) and generate infinite $ to buy infinite stocks, like how people buy DZ from bots to make WUCs go from 2.5m to 30-50m overnight.

Note how the fastest efficiency gains are first few weeks. Make 100k a day to 5m per day for the entire playerbase, so obviously the inflation on KR and JP corresponds directly to price levels without gold bots spamming megaphones.

Do businesses intentionally do things at greater cost than profit in the long run? Some do, but if they do, they disappear, quick. So do you think the frequency of megaphones of 6-15/hr is not directly attributable to the profitability of DZ selling? Or...

do you still think...

on 6/2 individual players on all server of the top 10-20 richest congregated to do mass price manipulation by farming tons of alts on SG/VP enough to buy out the entire market 10x over to increase prices at these levels over the last 15 days or is it perhaps.. $70/32 to $14 per billion that makes it so affordable for everyone? Does it even make any sense to you personally, to buy things at a low price, sell for higher - and then when primal comes, buy them at even higher? I mean some people are idiots, sure - but if you have a high income to spend on a game, I'm ascertain someone can more intelligent than this.

Price manipulation entails, well, crashing the market and mass selling things, spreading rumors and seeing prices go down when you want it to. If it always goes up, how exactly are you manipulating. ????

Gameforge's revenue model for whaling, yup. Play MMOS for achievement, exploration and social aspect. Well which one gives you most $?

The thoughts that some people put in their posts, Nitros, yup. Theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Apparently the average player who is geared doesn't care about their time either. So WUCs needed? Nah. +6 free it.

How many people want to spend an extra 12-20 minutes per run (x 6, or x13 on weekends)? Time spent sleeping, studying, doing excerise, cooking, meeting your significant other.

Let's not forget. KR. JP.

10% upgrade event. 3% favourability system for NPC.

Here. 0.5% rates.

Demand for DZ there? Not so much.

Demand here? Sign me up, neeeed that +9 wpn kkkk.

Over there? CS items 1/3 1/4 1/5 here.

Motives, intentions affect users, no?

Lastly, note how gold, something limited requires more currency, by the day. Yet can buy you the same good stuff as yesterday.

Quite similar to weapon upgrade chips and energy converters, which can 'hardly' be mined and is consumed immediately (electronics, medical devices / to actually play the game at a decent speed and make it enjoyable) can buy you the same stuff day after day, but DZ doesn't. I wonder why...

Maybe I should model WUCs/ECs index to DZ... (it's not even at 1%, probably at 0.1%) nah. It's just theory, not fact. Wild guess.

Display More

Didn't want to spend an hour trying to explain this thank you!

Read that post because it explains exactly why Dzenai are getting useless.

Demand-->Supply

Let me add ~

What happens when the average players have a limited income of Dzenai, prices of demanded items like WUC and EC rise everyday and people keep buying from gold bots?

Think about that one will you..

I have sold hundred thousands of SC to players and at this point I only accept items.

So basically, theres too many bots and until Western countries are forced to register accounts with SSN / phone numbers / something we will forever have ridiculous inflation

Quote from ceruulean

So basically, theres too many bots and until Western countries are forced to register accounts with SSN / phone numbers / something we will forever have ridiculous inflation

Or fill the demand* gap mentioned. Either by increasing drop chances of WUCs and ECs or selling them cheaper in premium shop than gold sellers can offer.

You know it doesn't really move the conversation forward, but the sole reason of the high prices of WUC and ECs is not simply having more DZ in general. Prices just started skyrocketing from one moment to the other. They are not harder to find, LC is still the most farmed raid and gives the most dzennies, Vicarious is still the highest dps gear, people didn't suddenly upgrade their gear so that their clear time dropped to a fifth of their original one.

I feel it's super suspicious that there is a price point every single day where every EC and WUC is bought up in a minute. I highly doubt that a single person is capable of buying up every stock or that multiple people just coordinate accidentally.

I'm quite sure they have enough money to buy literally everything up. Even if we had people that just want to make huge profits, who doesn't need WUCs and ECs? Geared up people need them, since Primal's gonna come and everyone wants to have their new perfect gear, high WUC and EC prices is bad for them. Poor people don't really need them, but they are poor so they can't exactly buy the whole market up and artifically create new and new pricepoints. The only party that doesn't need EC and WUC and can afford not to sit on them is gold sellers. WUC and EC prices changed from one day to another and so did the prices of gold sellers. If they had no connection, I don't think this would have been the case.

Quote from Cater

You know it doesn't really move the conversation forward, but the sole reason of the high prices of WUC and ECs is not simply having more DZ in general. Prices just started skyrocketing from one moment to the other. They are not harder to find, LC is still the most farmed raid and gives the most dzennies, Vicarious is still the highest dps gear, people didn't suddenly upgrade their gear so that their clear time dropped to a fifth of their original one.

I feel it's super suspicious that there is a price point every single day where every EC and WUC is bought up in a minute. I highly doubt that a single person is capable of buying up every stock or that multiple people just coordinate accidentally.

I'm quite sure they have enough money to buy literally everything up. Even if we had people that just want to make huge profits, who doesn't need WUCs and ECs? Geared up people need them, since Primal's gonna come and everyone wants to have their new perfect gear, high WUC and EC prices is bad for them. Poor people don't really need them, but they are poor so they can't exactly buy the whole market up and artifically create new and new pricepoints. The only party that doesn't need EC and WUC and can afford not to sit on them is gold sellers. WUC and EC prices changed from one day to another and so did the prices of gold sellers. If they had no connection, I don't think this would have been the case.

GC came and Jin came also mate you forgot that.So prices getting higher for WUC and EC its normal.Most of the ones that people were stashing vanished to enchant their aurith weapons and new Jin weapons and they got panicked and started buying again for primal weapons.

That kept prices rising simple because everyone buying none sells atm.Now if you see the past 3-4 days the price is pretty much stable to 28-32meach for WUC and 250-275m for EC

Expect the skyrocket again with Iris and Primal tho

How about GF limits the market prices, I mean not allow people to sell it higher than a certain amount?

Quote from Reverend

How about GF limits the market prices, I mean not allow people to sell it higher than a certain amount?

Then we won't see any of them in the market

No need to limit market prices. Just INCREASE THE DROP RATE GOD DAMN IT !

Quote from JasonTodd

No need to limit market prices. Just INCREASE THE DROP RATE GOD DAMN IT !

That was implemented to stop bots from farming them but unfortunately it had a huge impact on the playerbase also

My suggestion?Leave it as it is give us loyalty system.At least we will have a greater chance of succeeding in enchanting