Lily class concepts (Math later)

    I don't believe that dude can survive normal GC as Lilly, unless he posts a vid about it.


    Plus I mean, 102.66% of 20k is most definitely not 24k. monkaS maths

    Quote from Lezionyx

    While the possilbity of shift-cancel I greet with open arms i have a feeling that I am like, the only one who understood the design. I didn't die mid-cast once. It's supposed to be high risk-high reward skill NOT for when enemies are in the AoE cone but when enemies ARE COMING to the AoE Cone. That's the agree on disagree on speed. While I see everyone's point, that the skill should be faster... I never really DIED from the cast. Got hurt, yes, but it's a risk with any skill. There is a reason for 3/5 in control, there will be tough elements like these that you gotta consider.

    +1 on this. I actually agree on most things Lezionyx has said, but especially on this.


    Oh right, one more thing, I would like the ability Death Throw to not cancel when you evade during it. It always vexed me how the thrown weapon just magically disappears when you do that, it doesn't make any sense, once it is thrown, it should complete its animation regardless of what you do.


    Also, I haven't seen anyone use its other extension. You could maybe expand on that. After it is thrown, you can hold the left mouse button to keep it in place, meanwhile move around, and when you let go of the button, the scythe returns quickly to wherever you are currently standing (even fly a light curve when Lilly is running). I think that could be fun to use in PvP.

    Quote from Starwin

    Oh right, one more thing, I would like the ability Death Throw to not cancel when you evade during it. It always vexed me how the thrown weapon just magically disappears when you do that, it doesn't make any sense, once it is thrown, it should complete its animation regardless of what you do.

    Its just a bit bugged ;)



    Quote from Starwin

    Also, I haven't seen anyone use its other extension. You could maybe expand on that. After it is thrown, you can hold the left mouse button to keep it in place, meanwhile move around, and when you let go of the button, the scythe returns quickly to wherever you are currently standing (even fly a light curve when Lilly is running). I think that could be fun to use in PvP.

    I need to see it live :D

    yiBPy2z.png

    Quote from Starwin

    Also, I haven't seen anyone use its other extension

    If you mean the "stationary tornado" of the death throw,i tried it while alt-farming. At first i thought "hey,this could actually be useful" since it lasted for the same time as die-phoon,maybe half second more. Then i checked better when i was bored and... In terms of damage the usual seems still to be better since it does way more ticks. The tornado extension does 1 tick every 3 and a half tick of die-phoon,if i remember correctly when i used it 2 months ago, and while it has a quite large size (it almost gets as wide as the last corridor of the n-102 lab ep4 ) i don't think it's worth losing both the utility and the speed of the skill. The only good thing is that it won't cancel out (or at least i wasn't fast enough to do so) and that it can catch a large number of mobs,basically stunning them if they don't have s-armor,but it still has a fixed distance and it takes too much time to be effective.


    If you wanna try it you can do like i did: use an alternate char (unless you're like me that you create pre-emptively every possible char,in that case i can try recording it for you)

    New updates mean analysys change! I'll use same color code and only check changed elements only. Leggo!


    Quote from Yagyu4k

    Death Twister [Active]


    Quickly dash forward, using the speed perform a spinning slash.

    Hmm... does it mean we're dealing away with all of such ablities (looking over to Haru)? I... really do not know how to think on that change. It really depends on factors of other's changing as well. As it stands, I am agree-to-disagree, it just needed a range and damage buff, not an outright removal.



    So, instead of a buff-like effect, it goes into an interrupt and 15% DMG reduction. Still claim the costs need to be bigger though. (Look Blow Up).



    Quote from Yagyu4k

    Intensifying Madness [Passive] (Update)


    Increase Critical Damage.

    Every Soulforce you spend has a 15% chance to be refunded.

    A different passive revamp already, unnecessary to use this effect (Check Rampaging Madness)

    Cannot agree to this! Every char has boost to a certain stat. If we limit Lilly's CRIT DMG capablilty, we practicaly take away the only advantige she has, and ALL OTHER CLASSES have the same effect! So why OH WHY take away? I am seriously NOT getting it. And it's not funny.



    It creates an... interesting mechanic of 50% or not 50%? Albieit IMO, the early edit with the Movement speed +10% in the no 50% and Attack power in 50% was better.

    Quote from Yagyu4k

    Lily Wonderland [Passive] NEW


    Transform your Soulstones into a nexus dealing 33% additional elemental damage.

    When your soulstones deal elemental damage, you gain 10% armor break for 3 sec (8 seconds cooldown).

    Unfortunatly, this is what I feared. This makes Lilly OP.. Like, seriously , resistance can go fuck themselfs at this point, you can't do ANYTHING against +33% DMG plus! It's crazy! This ablitiy needs to be removed, for balance issues!


    Quote from Yagyu4k

    Supernatural [Passive] NEW


    When Lily deals direct damage (No elemental damage), 1.5% of that amount is copied as healing to up to 3 injured allies.

    1,5% I can agree on. It's good!



    Quote from Yagyu4k

    Scythe Strike [Active] (Update)


    SF cost: 20

    Cooldown: 8 sec.


    Swiftly raise the scythe. Enemies will be launched in the air with a double hit.

    Casting the ability increase the damage dealt of your next aerial attack by 20% for 3 seconds

    Keep that + ablitity to go into the air with charging, and this suddenly becomes an amazing skill of high risk-high reward mechanic.



    The change in lagrening cooldown... I mean, it's OK, but my opinion still stands, 5 sec boons with 15 sec cooldown is the best option.



    Quote from Yagyu4k

    Absorb [Extension]


    Steal HP from the afflicted enemies, and heals HP of oneself.


    HP gain has been activated for PvP with 35%

    OK, all good on here! Now, what would make it so the dynamic of choice will work with Silence.... hmmm....



    Quote from Yagyu4k

    (Description soon)

    I hope it's soon and not soon TM. :P


    I'll come in and speak all to you soon on the next update!

    Quote from Lezionyx

    Unfortunatly, this is what I feared. This makes Lilly OP.. Like, seriously , resistance can go fuck themselfs at this point, you can't do ANYTHING against +33% DMG plus! It's crazy! This ablitiy needs to be removed, for balance issues!

    This is a bonus damage by 574,2, I don't see a problem with that. Don't forget that the other classes get some buffs too :)

    But I had a idea for a elemental resistance breaker (like a few % -)

    Quote from Lezionyx

    Cannot agree to this! Every char has boost to a certain stat. If we limit Lilly's CRIT DMG capablilty, we practicaly take away the only advantige she has, and ALL OTHER CLASSES have the same effect! So why OH WHY take away? I am seriously NOT getting it. And it's not funny.

    You missunderstood, I dont want to remove it, the ability stay unchanged like the original.

    yiBPy2z.png

    Quote from Yagyu4k

    This is a bonus damage by 574,2, I don't see a problem with that. Don't forget that the other classes get some buffs too :)

    That's the equivilant of ~lvl 5 soulstone.... If all chars are starting to get similar things... the Aura for resistance might be more sought after then CRIT DMG. Try to make sure neither loses significance.



    Quote from Yagyu4k

    You missunderstood, I dont want to remove it, the ability stay unchanged like the original.

    ele.JPG

    Explain why the entire skill is crossed out then? To me it seems like you are just taking all of it out.

    Quote from Cater

    But by lvl 55, it doesn't matter that Lilly has the best basic attack in the game. Iris has the worst ones and it doesn't prevent her from being the best character right now.

    It's a bit late, but it does matter. It works for Iris because Iris is a skill spammer, while Lilly is not. She needs her basic Combo, and therefore, it should be useful to her and not be prevented from doing any damage just because her scaling is bad. When people talk about how to improve Lilly, they should consider how she works as a class. Otherwise, you could just halve cooldown and SF cost on all her skills to make her a skill spammer like Iris, it would greatly improve her DPS but at the cost of what constates her as a class.


    On a more general note, I watched a video showing Lillys advancement in the KR version. Was that taken into account when making this thread, or is it based on how Lilly works in EN without advancement? And to what extent?

    Quote from Starwin

    On a more general note, I watched a video showing Lillys advancement in the KR version. Was that taken into account when making this thread, or is it based on how Lilly works in EN without advancement? And to what extent?

    Its for the current + advanced version and some additional concepts for lvl65 ;)

    yiBPy2z.png

    Ahem, well ive read almost all this tread and thats a lot of damage, i mean a lot of info for my brain to eat at once, and also i cant truly see what all those skill reworks are giving to Lily until i feel it in gameplay under my fingers, so cant rly talk much about theory and math, BUT i think that all that stuff about Lily have a big issue, because she's a crit class and all those improvements are good, but it all doest help her as a crit class. It all misses that point.

    ^ Thats TLDR version, more thoughts and feels under spoiler.


    much text such feels

    Ugh i kinda exhaused for now and nothing else comes to mind, there are more things to talk about but i already got too much text x]

    Anyways hope i explained my point and we can pull smth good from it in further discuss:/

    And sorry if i repeated some already discussed or obvious things. Just tried to describe how i feel as Lily player.

    Thanks for your feedback, the first goal was it to get rid off the carnage phoon combo as only one stuff you keep using the entire time, but then we hit the point about pvp and different mechanics that she is in everything the worst.


    Soulstones are extremely weak for her, her crits are really bad and way too rng (I mean you crit non-stop but the numbers are a non-crit for haru).


    I get what you mean, I'll keep it in mind :)

    yiBPy2z.png

    Quote from Listy

    And also not all players have time or money to try different builds and decide everything themselves, so it's not fair to blame ppl when they just go for known paths.

    I haven't thought about it that way before. I didn't want to talk down on people doing that, especially since this game really does give you no choice just as you say. Heck, even I can't even fix the malfunctional skillset I gave my Lilly because skill reset tickets are not just Cash Shop only, but they don't even do what they are supposed to, they don't "reset" skills they just lower the skill level by 1. Which is useless. But I have a lot of cosmetic Items on my Lilly so I cant just switch to a new one, either.


    It's just that, when you want to go about discussing things and theorycrafting, you have to actually know your shit, and there is a lot of people who just mindlessly copied builds and still love to butt in on such topics and act like they know everything, which is really counterproductive, so you have to make sure and check the facts by yourself. For this kind of thing, the most productive thing to do is to admit when you DONT know something, and draw a line between what you know as a fact, and what is just hearsay.

    Quote from Starwin
    Quote from Listy

    And also not all players have time or money to try different builds and decide everything themselves, so it's not fair to blame ppl when they just go for known paths.

    I haven't thought about it that way before. I didn't want to talk down on people doing that, especially since this game really does give you no choice just as you say. Heck, even I can't even fix the malfunctional skillset I gave my Lilly because skill reset tickets are not just Cash Shop only, but they don't even do what they are supposed to, they don't "reset" skills they just lower the skill level by 1. Which is useless. But I have a lot of cosmetic Items on my Lilly so I cant just switch to a new one, either.


    It's just that, when you want to go about discussing things and theorycrafting, you have to actually know your shit, and there is a lot of people who just mindlessly copied builds and still love to butt in on such topics and act like they know everything, which is really counterproductive, so you have to make sure and check the facts by yourself. For this kind of thing, the most productive thing to do is to admit when you DONT know something, and draw a line between what you know as a fact, and what is just hearsay.


    In that case "add skill reset tickets to the grutin store" like 150-200 for 1 book (just single traits, not a full reset).

    and or/books like that as login reward a few times every month.


    Otherwise we have to change the abilities a bit that you're able to use both in PvE

    yiBPy2z.png

    Yes, I thought about writing a suggestion like that, but then again, this is already a suggestion post, and now its written here.


    I mean it's not like this is making anyone want to buy Soulcash, if anything, it's making people quit because they can't play the way they want to. Definitely an item that needs to be added to Grutin store and/or Login Bonuses.

    Quote from Starwin

    Yes, I thought about writing a suggestion like that, but then again, this is already a suggestion post, and now its written here.


    I mean it's not like this is making anyone want to buy Soulcash, if anything, it's making people quit because they can't play the way they want to. Definitely an item that needs to be added to Grutin store and/or Login Bonuses.

    Go ahead and tell us something, therefore we're here ;)

    yiBPy2z.png

    I like all your ideas about skills, but I don´t aggre with one thing. And that is decreasing damage. Right now I feel like only Super armour breaker. I can see it in Golden citadel. Most of SA break is mine but damage is like 15%, except using Big plastica. Its only akasha which saved Lilly in damage with spamming Die-phoons. But it is sad when you depend on one really hard to get 5* akasha.


    Lilly is highest crit damage and crit rate character, but I cant see nothing from it compared to Erwin or Haru.


    Next is her SF consumption. That is really bad when you use 2 skills and you run out of SF. For example Battle howl is really good skill, but using it will cost you 50% of SF, that is too much to handle by one 25 sec SF fizz. At least you need Erwin with his SF regen skill. I like it more than Stellas coz Stella has really low range.


    Guillotine is not that bad skill, like everyone saying. It is true that it is lowest of all other ultimates, but with Lilly guillotine you can move bosses and midi-bosses and it is really useful in Golden citadel or Last carnival. Its damage is miserable but its really good skill to support other classes like Erwin with his high burst single damage.

    I don´t like Deathly triad because it has too high cooldown and SF consumtion compared to damage and skill speed animation. Even worse is that you cant cancel it unless enemy will cancel it for you.


    From the start to the end Lilly has really big problem with Stamina too. I am using hidden Meggidon T3 but its not enough in Golden citadel. Idk about others but I am using really often evade to speed up every skill and it reason why theres no stamina whole time ^^

    Right now Lilly users have to wait at least for advancement or someone will hear us and help to make Lilly decent character.

    Lilly has more cons than pros, but still I love Lilly and I won´t give up to playing with her.

    Thanks for your hard work Yagyu4k

    with regards #Animefox

    19462.png[Animefox] lvl 60 Lilly

    [AnimeFoxy] lvl 60 Stella

    [Delightfox] lvl 57 Erwin

    [Chiifox] lvl 60 Chii



    You realize when you know how to think,

    it empowers you far beyond those

    who knows only what to think - Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Quote from Duchy097

    And that is decreasing damage

    It really depends, the other abilities get a huge damage buff, which means you have to compensate a bit to keep it balanced, well some of the nerfs are "slightly" too much but it isn't the goal to make her OP in the end, just a viable class with a lot of fun.


    Actually she is in everything the worst, the only one reason to get one is the crit buff, which isn't really required.

    I reduced the SF costs already or?

    +0.2 additional SF gen for basic attacks.


    Stamina well yes, definitely. But isn't every class a bit struggling actually?


    The advance mode deal almost the same damage like now while classes like Haru deal up to 4 million damage in aov gear.


    Something must happen, thats for sure.


    I highly appreciate the feedback by everyone and try to improve it even more before we head to the next class

    yiBPy2z.png

    A crit class that doesn't feel like a crit class, that's bad.


    I suggest Irascible add a scale to the damage, for example additional crit damage + 7/15/25%

    to resolve Lily's damage scaling problem. Buffing overall attack feels like something like Haru's exclusive