Posts by Riku

Quote from Vitae

Quote from okced

Imagine waking up to complain about a game that you still throw money at lmaoing @ ur life

Heres a better one
Imagine waking up in the morning going on the forums to mindlessly defend a company screwing its community over every single week.
Do you think you're special or going to get praise from them?
Of course you aren't because just like everyone else in this community, you're as insignificant as an ant to gameforge

actually i don't think they screw up the community that badly, beside the outfit is expensive the rest of the item is so cheap + don't really think we need that wings it's not really a necessity, it's more like a extra bonus thing (just like any outfit). Even in KR i am sure those wings are rng, maybe outfit may be RNG too or Free idk? someone have to check in KR, i know for sure TW also has RNG boxes and i think i remember seeing JP server also have RNG boxes. The only thing might screw up is that the box has a lot anti destruction, so WUC might go up a little. In other server rng boxes, might not be this outfit rng box, but they have WUC in it. Like i don't think this rng influence people gameplay all that much. Maybe now f2p have one less outfit to get or have to pay a lot for the outfit piece.

It's the same, I have a friend went to casino and lose so much money because the first time he went with his friends, his friends make like $2,000+ in less than an hour. So he thinks it's so easy, and he started to gamble too and ended up losing $2,000 instead. So can he blame casino for not being fair? Just that the odd is not with him, it's all probability and rng. Just because they both play the same game with same probability of winning and losing, doesnt mean the odd and luck is with you.

Quote from Rin

Quote from Rin

My sample size is from 34 people opening a cumulative 11,000 boxes in total.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes high spenders get worse rates with 1 in 1000 box rates and low incidental spenders get rates of 1 in 150 which could actually yield more profit if they have enough low box testimonial players sprinkled in with I will spend infinite amounts of money to get my exclusive glitter wings that only 1 in 200 people on the server will have.

Anyhow yes the same people raising their pitchforks at game companies making money when they don't spend at all is quite funny; considering these people probably don't go to work for free or would not work for a boss or customer that doesn't pay them at all and demands them to work harder or give away more for nothing in return. Aside from that I still concede that we are getting an inferior experience to other versions, probably because you need to milk 500 paying users harder than 10,000 paying users to keep your translation team, marketing team, community team paid as well as the game license and server fees.

I never spent any on these boxes so I have no other related comments for this discussion.

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well your sample size must be bad luck, I got my wings in first 50 box and my outfit on the next 100 box. so total 150 boxes. My other friend got her wings in 50 boxes and full outfit in and next 50, so 100 total. But then there is another friend got his wings in 600 boxes. And another person in EN candus recorded the video opening box, he his wings in 75 boxes. So it's all base on RNG, just like casino gambling, within the casino will have hundreds or thousands of ppl. And u may pick 34 that is unlucky, and ask them if they win or lose? and if those 34 is unlucky and lose, does that mean casino is a scam? it's all just base on probability and luck. If the odd is not with you, then it's not with you.

Quote from Sakasen

I dont know what sample-size you are looking at, but i got my wings on 75(~50bucks) and my friend got it in 100. RNG boxes are RNG, the company are not supposed to stop your addiction to gambling nor should they, it's your own fault if you don't want to stop. It's easy to say its somebodys else fault instead of thinking first about yourself and your exspectations.

It's hilarious to see that f2p-players who don't want to support the game want everything that is ingame, i expected the event to be more cash-related and it is. It gives some decent value and the big "crits" are the costume and wing. People buy a tiny amount of boxes and expect to get the big crit. That's not how it works, and neither in B&S which a few ppl mention here. I'm pretty sure if you don't spend a lot of keys you won't see the big crits either, since i play this game too. I have used 300 keys, which is the equivalent of 75 bucks and i didn't got anything. I know some ppl who open like 4000 keys in there and don't get the big crit(60 oils), stop mentioning other games that are probably same or worse. I have seen games that went under because devs keep listening to people who know nothing, making the game easy and equalized and ending the game. Live with the fact you can't get everything every time.

TLDR:

You buy a tiny amount of boxes, expect to get the big crit, you don't get them and blame everything else.

Then you give in to your gambling addiction, buy more boxes than you should and end up frustrated.

Expectation are the keyword i want to mention, you knew yourself that they will be hard/RNG. Still you can still get them since they are tradeable so yeah. Gonna peace out, forum discussion always end in a negative note since, nobody wants to admit themselves they were to greedy/conceited of getting the stuff.

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Well after i read soulworker forum, i came up with the smartest idea. I went to casino and gamble, and i lost everything. So i wasn't panic at all, i went into riot and tell casino that they are doin cash grab and shouldn't be legal. If they keep doin it this way, it's bad for the community and they should at least let people have higher chance of winning. At least make it so that people money are worth it, if i spend 100, i should at least get 100 back or more. That way the community and everyone will keep coming, Well at least for poor people like me who can only afford 200, rich people that can spend thousands it's fine, they dont really care much. This way everyone is happy. (This is my story, and then they called the security guard and kicked me out of the casino.) Kappa.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Well i think in TW or other server this outfit is also the same, it's RNG box for this set and wings. So i don't think it's GF, but i cant 100% sure, someone can check with their server and see.

Sad part is the RNG box has no WUC, i think TW server RNG box has WUC on it, so right now such a huge amount of Anti Destruction ppl get from the box. WUC goin to go up like crazy. GF shouldve add WUC into the RNG box, then WUC still got supply coming in.

Yes it was in a similar styled box but if I can remember correctly it didn't have useless items like the medkits filling up more spaces

Yeah. why cant GF use their brain? if they wanna do cash shop thing, atleast make it doesnt influence the market that much. They should be able to anticipate that having anti destruction in the box with grutin = more anti destruction. People will want to upgrade their weapon to +9, but the drop rate still low for WUC. So rip for WUC even more.

Well i think in TW or other server this outfit is also the same, it's RNG box for this set and wings. So i don't think it's GF, but i cant 100% sure, someone can check with their server and see.

Sad part is the RNG box has no WUC, i think TW server RNG box has WUC on it, so right now such a huge amount of Anti Destruction ppl get from the box. WUC goin to go up like crazy. GF shouldve add WUC into the RNG box, then WUC still got supply coming in.

Quote from Bumluffa

Quote from Iris Yuma

Mmm you should work on increasing the drop rate of weapon upgrade chips really, if an item is a common drop then it will make the item cheaper cos more supplies.

Quote from threea

Hello everyone,

the current state of the ingame economy is a known topic to us and we will continue to look closely into detecting the source of the issue. We are constantly working against goldsellers in all our servers and will further investigate, in order to track the origin of the amount of gold that exists right now in the game. For any further news and updates on the matter we will keep you informed.

Cheers,

threea

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Quote from Riku

Quote from Iris Yuma

Mmm you should work on increasing the drop rate of weapon upgrade chips really, if an item is a common drop then it will make the item cheaper cos more supplies.

Quote from threea

Hello everyone,

the current state of the ingame economy is a known topic to us and we will continue to look closely into detecting the source of the issue. We are constantly working against goldsellers in all our servers and will further investigate, in order to track the origin of the amount of gold that exists right now in the game. For any further news and updates on the matter we will keep you informed.

Cheers,

threea

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Yeah I think increasing the WUC drop rate is a good idea as well, that means more players will try to +9 their gears = more anti destruction needed = more profit for gameforge. It's a win-win for players and gameforge.

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this a really dumb idea. Wuc prices aren't high because they're so rare. Their price is high because there is too much dz in the economy from being generated 24/7 by bots. That's why you see the price of EVERYTHING is high, not just wucs. Wucs ECS gc frags soulstone frags gc armour crafting materials gc armour and glacial accessories. All high.

And you think raising drop rate of wuc will combat all of this inflation? No. It will only lower price of wuc when that is unnecessary while everything else remains high priced. If you raise drop rate of wuc are you gonna raise drop rate of everything else too? Don't be stupid.

Seems to me from threeas post gf is taking the right approach - find origin of excess dz in economy and delete it/ban. Hopefully they reach a solution sooner rather than later

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Okay, Yes there is excess of dz is in economy right now, and what ur counter? charging everyone fees everytime they spend or tax all of them? Yes banning botter will solve everything but that's not happening yet, if they can stop botter they wouldve stop them already before so many Dz came into the economy. And just by banning Botter, it doesnt stop the WUC goes up in a higher rate than any other items due to there is more demand than supply.

So only way is if there is excess of WUC in the markets, to the point that most ppl +9 their weapon then the demand will drop, but supply will keep coming in. When supply become greater than demand, the price will drop by itself. Yes Excess of DZ will create inflation, which make everything goes up together. But EC and WUC goes up in the a lot higher rate due to the demand is a lot greater than the supply. That is Economics Basics: Supply and Demand, price doesnt go up if there is no demand on the items.

https://www.investopedia.com/u…/economics/economics3.asp

There is more detail of supply and demand here how the price of goods changes base on the demand, and how demand influence the price of the goods.

(well maybe i don't study my economy well enough i may be wrong, but from what i remember in school is that Inflation pretty much make ur money worth a lot less in value = each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money.)

That's why the moment when people that hold on to dz saw the inflation hits, they dont wanna hold on to the money, because the longer they hold on to it, the worthless the money will be in term of buying power. That's why instead, they went and buy asset (which is WUC and EC), asset that they know that if they invest in those, the value will not drop rather they believe the value of those items will raise. That's why the demand for those items become greater than the supply, which back to my Basic economic, supply and demand.

Well maybe someone better at Micro and macro economy can explain better.

https://courses.lumenlearning.…-and-assessing-inflation/

Here is the link of what is inflation.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Iris Yuma

Mmm you should work on increasing the drop rate of weapon upgrade chips really, if an item is a common drop then it will make the item cheaper cos more supplies.

Quote from threea

Hello everyone,

the current state of the ingame economy is a known topic to us and we will continue to look closely into detecting the source of the issue. We are constantly working against goldsellers in all our servers and will further investigate, in order to track the origin of the amount of gold that exists right now in the game. For any further news and updates on the matter we will keep you informed.

Cheers,

threea

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Yeah I think increasing the WUC drop rate is a good idea as well, that means more players will try to +9 their gears = more anti destruction needed = more profit for gameforge. It's a win-win for players and gameforge.

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Didn't think about that anti part, even more reason for them to focus on this

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Yeah, and this way it also help F2P players survive in game and also help whale to be able to get their +9 and also help Gameforge make money. So it's perfect solution for WUC price problem.

Quote from Iris Yuma

Mmm you should work on increasing the drop rate of weapon upgrade chips really, if an item is a common drop then it will make the item cheaper cos more supplies.

Quote from threea

Hello everyone,

the current state of the ingame economy is a known topic to us and we will continue to look closely into detecting the source of the issue. We are constantly working against goldsellers in all our servers and will further investigate, in order to track the origin of the amount of gold that exists right now in the game. For any further news and updates on the matter we will keep you informed.

Cheers,

threea

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Yeah I think increasing the WUC drop rate is a good idea as well, that means more players will try to +9 their gears = more anti destruction needed = more profit for gameforge. It's a win-win for players and gameforge.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Well with drop rate increase, the demand may still be the same but the supply will go up if the community decided to sell it. But most ppl that sell WUC usually have items they want to buy, either EC, cash shop items, or gears. So those money will just goes into other players, and players that sold EC, cash shop items, or gears got the money and they wanted WUC or EC, then those items price will still keep going up. But if community constant provide supply in, and when supply is over demand then the price will drop. Which doesnt matter that often, due to the enhance weapon chance is all base on RNG and it's so low that it's all base on luck. So people never prepare enough WUC, so they will constantly buying WUC to stock up as long as primal is not out, people will constantly buying WUC.

And yes some random who barely know how to play and know markets well and able do play it that way, it's sad but we have to accept it. until one day community decided the price is over price and should stop buying, that's when those people cant make money anymore. Reason they can play with markets because the whole community wanted and cant wait, so they buy the items without thinking it will make the markets worse. But we gonna accept that, if he earned his money legitimately, there isnt much we can do. Unless gameforge remove Auction house system completely or like BDO set a limit how much those item can be sold to prevent this type of pricing happening.

I very much understand although people will be able to rely on farming a little better as a result of these drop rates increase
hopefully if this is tackled properly will reach the same point as the KR version where they go for 500k-1m per chip. More available, more farmable, if people want more dz farm a bit more and sell in large quantities because that amount will be possible

Well because in KR first they need ID to create account, so barely or no bot in their server. second they have NPC loyalty system, which increase enhance success rate = less WUC needed to upgrade that means more supply in the markets for others. Third is that they don't have Alt farm, so they are limited to where they can get anti destruction for those f2p players, and their server player base is a lot lower. Only recently become populated bcoz KR Closers online screw up and make a lot of their players goes to KR SW. Because our server, we can farmed Alt = Anti destruction so easily obtain, that makes WUC demand is so high bcoz all players can now upgrade without relay on event anti destruction or cash shop.

We are on the KR Version(technically) , it's only a matter of time before those changes are made to our version yet. Gameforge distributes the update but Liongames supplies them with that version of the game

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Well we follow KR patch note but GF kinda adjust base on feedback, such as alt farm they didnt completely removed it instead now it's 1 week deletion, maybe in the future they might change it, who knows. Second is Rookie raid, we got the revamped version few weeks after KR, and because players complaining no way to farm EC, so GF put back Grutin cubes for people to farm EC. A lot of the benefit we got out server doesn't exist in KR anymore, well of course that may change in the future and KR also has better event than us.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Well with drop rate increase, the demand may still be the same but the supply will go up if the community decided to sell it. But most ppl that sell WUC usually have items they want to buy, either EC, cash shop items, or gears. So those money will just goes into other players, and players that sold EC, cash shop items, or gears got the money and they wanted WUC or EC, then those items price will still keep going up. But if community constant provide supply in, and when supply is over demand then the price will drop. Which doesnt matter that often, due to the enhance weapon chance is all base on RNG and it's so low that it's all base on luck. So people never prepare enough WUC, so they will constantly buying WUC to stock up as long as primal is not out, people will constantly buying WUC.

And yes some random who barely know how to play and know markets well and able do play it that way, it's sad but we have to accept it. until one day community decided the price is over price and should stop buying, that's when those people cant make money anymore. Reason they can play with markets because the whole community wanted and cant wait, so they buy the items without thinking it will make the markets worse. But we gonna accept that, if he earned his money legitimately, there isnt much we can do. Unless gameforge remove Auction house system completely or like BDO set a limit how much those item can be sold to prevent this type of pricing happening.

I very much understand although people will be able to rely on farming a little better as a result of these drop rates increase
hopefully if this is tackled properly will reach the same point as the KR version where they go for 500k-1m per chip. More available, more farmable, if people want more dz farm a bit more and sell in large quantities because that amount will be possible

Well because in KR first they need ID to create account, so barely or no bot in their server. second they have NPC loyalty system, which increase enhance success rate = less WUC needed to upgrade that means more supply in the markets for others. Third is that they don't have Alt farm, so they are limited to where they can get anti destruction for those f2p players, and their server player base is a lot lower. Only recently become populated bcoz KR Closers online screw up and make a lot of their players goes to KR SW. Because our server, we can farmed Alt = Anti destruction so easily obtain, that makes WUC demand is so high bcoz all players can now upgrade without relay on event anti destruction or cash shop.

Well with drop rate increase, the demand may still be the same but the supply will go up if the community decided to sell it. But most ppl that sell WUC usually have items they want to buy, either EC, cash shop items, or gears. So those money will just goes into other players, and players that sold EC, cash shop items, or gears got the money and they wanted WUC or EC, then those items price will still keep going up. But if community constant provide supply in, and when supply is over demand then the price will drop. Which doesnt matter that often, due to the enhance weapon chance is all base on RNG and it's so low that it's all base on luck. So people never prepare enough WUC, so they will constantly buying WUC to stock up as long as primal is not out, people will constantly buying WUC.

And yes some random who barely know how to play and know markets well and able do play it that way, it's sad but we have to accept it. until one day community decided the price is over price and should stop buying, that's when those people cant make money anymore. Reason they can play with markets because the whole community wanted and cant wait, so they buy the items without thinking it will make the markets worse. But we gonna accept that, if he earned his money legitimately, there isnt much we can do. Unless gameforge remove Auction house system completely or like BDO set a limit how much those item can be sold to prevent this type of pricing happening.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Vitae

Your point is noticed, but still from a game genre which revolves around grinding and dedicating, yes you can put money into it. But can you truly say you are a genuine player. Secondly earning tons of dz via SC then buying all the WUCs in the market to overall inflate their price is something these same people. Yes they are supporting the game developers itself by purchasing, but they are also severely hurting the game by making people lose interest due to their inability to get certain items. It's double sided either way you look at it, yes I agree on the botting side. But still people who spend more time on the market than actually playing the game shouldn't even really be considered 'real players'.

I really don't want to sound elitist because I hate that sort of toxic mentality and I do want to welcome more people to the game. Having an active community makes the game more fun after all. But right now having +9 weapons and armour is practically exclusive to those who have either paid, cheated or were some of the first to abuse the inflation of items. I want everyone to be able to experience their actual potential as a player with good gear from primal with +9 weapons. If the issue is completely ignored many more people are going to drop off this game because their is specific group of people controlling and manipulating the market, toying with the rest of the community

Well i edited my earlier post by saying :

Also " Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have."

Why would it be matter? i thought u believe if people dont time to invest time to grind, they shouldn't be playing. Then why would WUC/EC in auction house matter to them? since they are goin to grind and farm them anyways, or they are planning to buy them off the market too and not goin to farm those?

And the definition of "real player" is kinda hard, because everyone play their game differently. Some play enjoy the market and economy aspect of the game, they found this is their way to play the game and occasionally go raid. For me , i enjoy the raid aspect of the game, and occasionally go to market to check on the items i want if i dont feel like waiting from the RNG drop in dungeon/raid. Two players are playing the game, just different aspect of the game they are playing with. To us "real player" is grind raid and enjoy the action combat, to some of them "real player" is play with the market and micro managing the price of the market. We can't really tell ppl how to be "real human" in real world, everyone live their life differently just like they play game differently.

But yes by manipulating to the market, it will toy with ppl that dont grind and dont pay. If you are grinder, it doesnt affect me at all, i still continue grind my WUC, EC and gears. They can be 1 billion per WUC, i still grind my own WUC and it doesnt really affect me. In a way, it help me bcoz now what i grind worth 1 billions and other items that didnt go up price by so much now i can afford it easier.

And to tell u honestly, having +9 weapon not really exclusive to paid user. In EN, u can go ask Relara, she got her +9 weapon when she was waiting for her team, with 1 tried that day she got it to +9, yes total attempt is around 23-25 for her. But here i +8 my weapon with 84 attempted. +9 weapon just all depend on luck, just that Paid user can save soooo much time to keep trying by buying it off market (so they spend their money to save time). While like u said, "real player" need to grind and takes a lot more time to get all those WUC back again to try again. (so f2p spend time to save money, but takes a lot more time). Is it unfair? in game yes ,in overall no. They grind in real life and f2p grind in game, at the end it's the same thing.

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So basically your argument is no one grinds the dz to buy WUCs?
Sorry to disappoint you but I put my time into grinding WUCs, ECs and Sets to sell all so I can be ready for Primal. I sell stuff legitimately without manipulating the damn market and screwing people over. If you trade your way to the top by causing inflation, buying gold etc. can you really sit their and say you're a top player?

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My argument is that if u grinds dz to buy WUC, that is creating more dz into economy as well ,that also create more inflow of money into economy which you are also contribution to inflation. Yes probably very minimal compare to botter that making dz become worthless. But inflation is not just cause by one person, it cause by the whole community.

Grinding for Dz to buy WUC is fine, but playing with market to buy WUC or stock up to prepare for primal is not fine? is that what you are saying? i am not the type that play with market, i found it boring if i wanna do that i do that in real life investment in stock markets. But just standing from a neutral stand point, both just playing their own game in their own way. i gonna admit that i respect those player that can sit and manipulating markets without getting bored of it. I personally found it very boring.

But we should have mutual respect on how people like to play their game, if your way is to want to make healthy market, then keep supply stock into the market. The more they buy, the more u supply into market to counter them. But it's hard, because inflation is cause by the whole community, when most community pick to farm dz and buy WUC, and pay user sell SC items to buy WUC. The demand is greater than the supply by a lot (In Economy term), which causes the raise of the price for the high demand and low supply items (WUC and EC).

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"Grinding for Dz to buy WUC is fine, but playing with market to buy WUC or stock up to prepare for primal is not fine?"
I don't think you understand the people I am shunning, I'm not trying to be rude I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

I disagree with how certain people 'earn' their dz. I use the term 'earn' very lightly because the minimal effort its takes to 'earn' anything that way is honestly pitiful, shameful and disgusting.

People who are doing their balance of trading, playing, maybe even a bit of premium shops. I have no problem with

I have a problem with the people who have literally barely played the game and have everything because they sit there for about 30 minutes a day, goes to the trading tab, searches weapon chips.
"Oh look they're going for 20 Million, buys out all the 'cheap' WUCs then instantly sells that exact amount off for 25-30 Million.

Literally putting no effort into how they play their game. Its so braindead easy.

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And u realized those people is making 4-5 millions per transaction if buyer buy it after they resell at higher price. When they couldve been in raid farming and make more money and having those kind of people wouldnt change the market so badly. The reason market change so badly, because there is people wiped out the whole markets consistently. It may be just one person that been saving and saving up a lot dz to do that, then i gonna he deserve what he got, bcoz he has been saving up billions to manipulate the market. Well Unless the other possibility, those players that bought from third party and then buy out the whole markets. But those player is doin stuff against the ToS, only GF has the power to do something about it. And playing with markets legitimately takes a lot more effort, patience and time. In my opinion, i am amazed some people are enjoying playing it that well, got on just to buy and sell for hours and hours. What's the point of playing if you are not playing the action, but see that's our way of enjoying the game. And their way of enjoying it is different than us. But as long as they are not doin anything against the rule, well why not. that's part of game mechanic. But inflation doesnt cause by those players that easily, it's the whole community that make it possible, because it's online game everyone is selfish. No one want to put out their asset to try to make the price back to normal, so at the end more demand than supply. So we are contributing to inflation too, just not as much as others.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Vitae

Yes, except spending money (saving time) on third party systems. It's flat out against the rules and yet you seem to still be supportive of hurting this game. Gold sellers and the people who are buying gold from them are hurting this game just as bad as each others. If you're making you dz by selling things from Premium Shop items, fair game. But don't go against the rules just to screw everyone else over, you're just dragging everyone down with you.

If you are just going to kill the game and have a negative contribution the game in general by abusing third party systems you deserve to be perma-banned. Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have.

If you genuinely support third party users I suppose you are either one of them or you are benefitting off this ridiculous inflation.

Well I am saying using SC to sell for Dz, i am not talking about buying from third party. As for third party (Botter), GF have to find a way to counter it. But i am just saying free2pay or pay user it's both the same, just both look at the value of their time and money differently. That's why it should not be "if u don't have time invest in the game, you shouldnt play the game", game is just an entertainment that is for everyone and everyone way of enjoying their entertainment is different. My point on my post there is anyone can play the game, and not about people buying from third party (those people only GF can do something about it). Plus, even without botter, whale still goin to buy like anti destruction and other Cash shop items to sell. Just that they need to spend more, but yes maybe inflation wouldn't be this bad if bot was handle right in the beginning. But at the end, even without inflation, WUC and EC will still go up no matter what. Because whale still have a way to get DZ and then buy out the EC and WUC. The demand for WUC and EC just way greater than the supply, that's why those items raise in price in such a ridiculous speed.

(and if you truly want to support the game, please spend some real money on game to buy cash shop items to support them, the game company doesnt really earn profit off free to play players, yes it make the community great so whale will keep supporting the game. Whale wouldn't play the game if server is dead too, but true supportive is at least spend some money once in awhile to help them. Alt farm already kill a lot of their profit and all server alt farm is already removed or never exist.)

Your point is noticed, but still from a game genre which revolves around grinding and dedicating, yes you can put money into it. But can you truly say you are a genuine player. Secondly earning tons of dz via SC then buying all the WUCs in the market to overall inflate their price is something these same people. Yes they are supporting the game developers itself by purchasing, but they are also severely hurting the game by making people lose interest due to their inability to get certain items. It's double sided either way you look at it, yes I agree on the botting side. But still people who spend more time on the market than actually playing the game shouldn't even really be considered 'real players'.

I really don't want to sound elitist because I hate that sort of toxic mentality and I do want to welcome more people to the game. Having an active community makes the game more fun after all. But right now having +9 weapons and armour is practically exclusive to those who have either paid, cheated or were some of the first to abuse the inflation of items. I want everyone to be able to experience their actual potential as a player with good gear from primal with +9 weapons. If the issue is completely ignored many more people are going to drop off this game because their is specific group of people controlling and manipulating the market, toying with the rest of the community

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Well i edited my earlier post by saying :

Also " Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have."

Why would it be matter? i thought u believe if people dont time to invest time to grind, they shouldn't be playing. Then why would WUC/EC in auction house matter to them? since they are goin to grind and farm them anyways, or they are planning to buy them off the market too and not goin to farm those?

And the definition of "real player" is kinda hard, because everyone play their game differently. Some play enjoy the market and economy aspect of the game, they found this is their way to play the game and occasionally go raid. For me , i enjoy the raid aspect of the game, and occasionally go to market to check on the items i want if i dont feel like waiting from the RNG drop in dungeon/raid. Two players are playing the game, just different aspect of the game they are playing with. To us "real player" is grind raid and enjoy the action combat, to some of them "real player" is play with the market and micro managing the price of the market. We can't really tell ppl how to be "real human" in real world, everyone live their life differently just like they play game differently.

But yes by manipulating to the market, it will toy with ppl that dont grind and dont pay. If you are grinder, it doesnt affect me at all, i still continue grind my WUC, EC and gears. They can be 1 billion per WUC, i still grind my own WUC and it doesnt really affect me. In a way, it help me bcoz now what i grind worth 1 billions and other items that didnt go up price by so much now i can afford it easier.

And to tell u honestly, having +9 weapon not really exclusive to paid user. In EN, u can go ask Relara, she got her +9 weapon when she was waiting for her team, with 1 tried that day she got it to +9, yes total attempt is around 23-25 for her. But here i +8 my weapon with 84 attempted. +9 weapon just all depend on luck, just that Paid user can save soooo much time to keep trying by buying it off market (so they spend their money to save time). While like u said, "real player" need to grind and takes a lot more time to get all those WUC back again to try again. (so f2p spend time to save money, but takes a lot more time). Is it unfair? in game yes ,in overall no. They grind in real life and f2p grind in game, at the end it's the same thing.

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So basically your argument is no one grinds the dz to buy WUCs?
Sorry to disappoint you but I put my time into grinding WUCs, ECs and Sets to sell all so I can be ready for Primal. I sell stuff legitimately without manipulating the damn market and screwing people over. If you trade your way to the top by causing inflation, buying gold etc. can you really sit their and say you're a top player?

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My argument is that if u grinds dz to buy WUC, that is creating more dz into economy as well ,that also create more inflow of money into economy which you are also contribution to inflation. Yes probably very minimal compare to botter that making dz become worthless. But inflation is not just cause by one person, it cause by the whole community.

Grinding for Dz to buy WUC is fine, but playing with market to buy WUC or stock up to prepare for primal is not fine? is that what you are saying? i am not the type that play with market, i found it boring if i wanna do that i do that in real life investment in stock markets. But just standing from a neutral stand point, both just playing their own game in their own way. i gonna admit that i respect those player that can sit and manipulating markets legitimately without getting bored of it. I personally found it very boring. (people that play with the market is doin it legitimately and spend as much time as any grinding out there to play their game.)

But we should have mutual respect on how people like to play their game, if your way is to want to make healthy market, then keep supply stock into the market. (they are player also like u, that they wants WUC and ECs, and if the community truly wants to be healthy, every good players that care about the community, put in supply when price is not normal to keep it back to normal price then. But everyone is selfish, they wants the items doesnt matter grinding or marketer, both will wanna stock up their wuc and ec for primal.) The more they buy, the more u supply into market to counter them. But it's hard, because inflation is cause by the whole community, when most community pick to farm dz and buy WUC, and pay user sell SC items to buy WUC. The demand is greater than the supply by a lot (In Economy term), which causes the raise of the price for the high demand and low supply items (WUC and EC).

Quote from rj153

Quote from Riku

Quote from rj153

Best thing i can say is this. If it were not for the alts still being partially allowed you basically could have 1000 weapon upgrade chips and if your not swipping your cc then your not getting anti breaks. Leave GF alone. Plain and simple. Think its just a game if you want to. They are here to make money. Dont be silly. Ingame money can be grinded.

Exactly, well still have a way to get anti, buying it off Auction house from cash user. So cash user will get more dz to go buy WUC and EC as well. Then WUC and EC will raised too, and this thread will still be created except now maybe players want GF to give them a way to get Anti Destruction and probably complain at that time that this game is pay2win.

denied lol what incentive do they get out of selling them at a reasonable price? would you like an ss of how much an anti destruct cost in the market? The price of weapon upgrade chip is nothing in comparison lol

It has always been pay to win if you want to think of it that way. Only games like BDO can say there is not chance of that. Which is why most are here. (yes i play it to this is what i do when i just want to fish afk or craft etc there) There is no game thats not pay to win as you all call it. I call it play to play. I see not diff. in GF asking for 99 dollars for come currency vs the idiots asking 60 bucks for a ps or xbox game. None of it is free.

Only children speak of pay to win or those very immature adults. Because real life is pay to live. Not to say your one of those people. i just hate it when people say pay to win. Because just like they have bills to pay so does all businesses.

The irony is the same stupid people that scream pay to win are the very same imbeciles that pay 60 dollars or more every two weeks for a new ps or xbox games....wheres the logic. lol

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well yeah i totally agree with u, but to be honest if you are really free to play, i know my friends are free to play. They have 2 Haru and use up all 1200 EP everyday, and those market price didnt really bother them that much. Since they farm so much everyday and enjoying it. So the people that complain usually are the one that doesn't wanna put effort or as much time in and just want to get their gears up fast too. Just like my other post i wrote this bfore:

It's like in real world, you can't get quality, speed and cost all at once.

1.) You want good items and to get it fast, it will cost u a lot (Spend real money or a lot DZ).

2.) You want good items that cost you nothing, then don't expect to get it fast. go grind.

3.) You want fast and cheap, then don't expect to be able to get good quality item.

So right now, people that complain is type 2, they wanted goods (WUC/EC) that cost them nothing or very cheap price, so they have to go grind hard. But because they can't grind or lazy to grind and they dont wanna spend money, then they blame it on others then.

Quote from rj153

Best thing i can say is this. If it were not for the alts still being partially allowed you basically could have 1000 weapon upgrade chips and if your not swipping your cc then your not getting anti breaks. Leave GF alone. Plain and simple. Think its just a game if you want to. They are here to make money. Dont be silly. Ingame money can be grinded.

Exactly, well still have a way to get anti, buying it off Auction house from cash user. So cash user will get more dz to go buy WUC and EC as well. Then WUC and EC will raised too, and this thread will still be created except now maybe players want GF to give them a way to get Anti Destruction and probably complain at that time that this game is pay2win.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

" I understand where you are coming from but if you dont have the time to put into games like these, why play games that require a lot of investment instead of easy drop in drop out games that dont require intensive grind?" - Vitae

Doesn't it goes both way?

You can also say it in this way: if you don't have time to put money into games like these, why play games that require money or time investment to progress fast instead of easy drop in drop out games that don't require money spending to progress fast?

it's the model of the game, you either spend time or you spend money. In a way, both are the same, one u buy time with money, one is save(earn/buy) money by spend time in game. Just one look at their time in a higher value than money, and one look at money in a higher value than their time.

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Yes, except spending money (saving time) on third party systems. It's flat out against the rules and yet you seem to still be supportive of hurting this game. Gold sellers and the people who are buying gold from them are hurting this game just as bad as each others. If you're making you dz by selling things from Premium Shop items, fair game. But don't go against the rules just to screw everyone else over, you're just dragging everyone down with you.

If you are just going to kill the game and have a negative contribution the game in general by abusing third party systems you deserve to be perma-banned. Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have.

If you genuinely support third party users I suppose you are either one of them or you are benefitting off this ridiculous inflation.

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Well I am saying using SC to sell for Dz, i am not talking about buying from third party. As for third party (Botter), GF have to find a way to counter it. But i am just saying free2pay or pay user it's both the same, just both look at the value of their time and money differently. That's why it should not be "if u don't have time invest in the game, you shouldnt play the game", game is just an entertainment that is for everyone and everyone way of enjoying their entertainment is different. My point on my post there is anyone can play the game, and not about people buying from third party (those people only GF can do something about it). Plus, even without botter, whale still goin to buy like anti destruction and other Cash shop items to sell. Just that they need to spend more, but yes maybe inflation wouldn't be this bad if bot was handle right in the beginning. But at the end, even without inflation, WUC and EC will still go up no matter what. Because whale still have a way to get DZ and then buy out the EC and WUC. The demand for WUC and EC just way greater than the supply, that's why those items raise in price in such a ridiculous speed.

(and if you truly want to support the game, please spend some real money on game to buy cash shop items to support them, the game company doesnt really earn profit off free to play players, yes it make the community great so whale will keep supporting the game. Whale wouldn't play the game if server is dead too, but true supportive is at least spend some money once in awhile to help them. Alt farm already kill a lot of their profit and all server alt farm is already removed or never exist.)

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Your point is noticed, but still from a game genre which revolves around grinding and dedicating, yes you can put money into it. But can you truly say you are a genuine player. Secondly earning tons of dz via SC then buying all the WUCs in the market to overall inflate their price is something these same people. Yes they are supporting the game developers itself by purchasing, but they are also severely hurting the game by making people lose interest due to their inability to get certain items. It's double sided either way you look at it, yes I agree on the botting side. But still people who spend more time on the market than actually playing the game shouldn't even really be considered 'real players'.

I really don't want to sound elitist because I hate that sort of toxic mentality and I do want to welcome more people to the game. Having an active community makes the game more fun after all. But right now having +9 weapons and armour is practically exclusive to those who have either paid, cheated or were some of the first to abuse the inflation of items. I want everyone to be able to experience their actual potential as a player with good gear from primal with +9 weapons. If the issue is completely ignored many more people are going to drop off this game because their is specific group of people controlling and manipulating the market, toying with the rest of the community

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Well i edited my earlier post by saying :

Also " Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have."

Why would it be matter? i thought u believe if people dont time to invest time to grind, they shouldn't be playing. Then why would WUC/EC in auction house matter to them? since they are goin to grind and farm them anyways, or they are planning to buy them off the market too and not goin to farm those?

And the definition of "real player" is kinda hard, because everyone play their game differently. Some play enjoy the market and economy aspect of the game, they found this is their way to play the game and occasionally go raid. For me , i enjoy the raid aspect of the game, and occasionally go to market to check on the items i want if i dont feel like waiting from the RNG drop in dungeon/raid. Two players are playing the game, just different aspect of the game they are playing with. To us "real player" is grind raid and enjoy the action combat, to some of them "real player" is play with the market and micro managing the price of the market. We can't really tell ppl how to be "real human" in real world, everyone live their life differently just like they play game differently.

But yes by manipulating to the market, it will toy with ppl that dont grind and dont pay. If you are grinder, it doesnt affect me at all, i still continue grind my WUC, EC and gears. They can be 1 billion per WUC, i still grind my own WUC and it doesnt really affect me. In a way, it help me bcoz now what i grind worth 1 billions and other items that didnt go up price by so much now i can afford it easier.

And to tell u honestly, having +9 weapon not really exclusive to paid user. In EN, u can go ask Relara, she got her +9 weapon when she was waiting for her team, with 1 tried that day she got it to +9, yes total attempt is around 23-25 for her. But here i +8 my weapon with 84 attempted. +9 weapon just all depend on luck, just that Paid user can save soooo much time to keep trying by buying it off market (so they spend their money to save time). While like u said, "real player" need to grind and takes a lot more time to get all those WUC back again to try again. (so f2p spend time to save money, but takes a lot more time). Is it unfair? in game yes ,in overall no. They grind in real life and f2p grind in game, at the end it's the same thing.

Quote from Vitae

Quote from Riku

" I understand where you are coming from but if you dont have the time to put into games like these, why play games that require a lot of investment instead of easy drop in drop out games that dont require intensive grind?" - Vitae

Doesn't it goes both way?

You can also say it in this way: if you don't have time to put money into games like these, why play games that require money or time investment to progress fast instead of easy drop in drop out games that don't require money spending to progress fast?

it's the model of the game, you either spend time or you spend money. In a way, both are the same, one u buy time with money, one is save(earn/buy) money by spend time in game. Just one look at their time in a higher value than money, and one look at money in a higher value than their time.

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Yes, except spending money (saving time) on third party systems. It's flat out against the rules and yet you seem to still be supportive of hurting this game. Gold sellers and the people who are buying gold from them are hurting this game just as bad as each others. If you're making you dz by selling things from Premium Shop items, fair game. But don't go against the rules just to screw everyone else over, you're just dragging everyone down with you.

If you are just going to kill the game and have a negative contribution the game in general by abusing third party systems you deserve to be perma-banned. Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have.

If you genuinely support third party users I suppose you are either one of them or you are benefitting off this ridiculous inflation.

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Well I am saying using SC to sell for Dz, i am not talking about buying from third party, that is against the ToS. As for third party (Botter), GF have to find a way to counter it. But i am just saying free2pay or pay user it's both the same, just both look at the value of their time and money differently. That's why it should not be "if u don't have time invest in the game, you shouldnt play the game", game is just an entertainment that is for everyone and everyone way of enjoying their entertainment is different. My point on my post there is anyone can play the game, and not about people buying from third party (those people only GF can do something about it). Plus, even without botter, whale still goin to buy like anti destruction and other Cash shop items to sell. Just that they need to spend more, but yes maybe inflation wouldn't be this bad if bot was handle right in the beginning. But at the end, even without inflation, WUC and EC will still go up no matter what. Because whale still have a way to get DZ and then buy out the EC and WUC. The demand for WUC and EC just way greater than the supply, that's why those items raise in price in such a ridiculous speed.

(and if you truly want to support the game, please spend some real money on game to buy cash shop items to support them, the game company doesnt really earn profit off free to play players, yes it make the community great so whale will keep supporting the game. Whale wouldn't play the game if server is dead too, but true supportive is at least spend some money once in awhile to help them. Alt farm already kill a lot of their profit and all server alt farm is already removed or never exist.)

Also " Remember because of these absurd prices some people feel accomplished with low tier gear because it seems practically impossible to reach that high tier. People are stopping to play bc they feel like they've done everything way before they actually have."

Why would it be matter? i thought u believe if people dont time to invest time to grind, they shouldn't be playing. Then why would WUC/EC in auction house matter to them? since they are goin to grind and farm them anyways, or they are planning to buy them off the market too and not goin to farm those?

" I understand where you are coming from but if you dont have the time to put into games like these, why play games that require a lot of investment instead of easy drop in drop out games that dont require intensive grind?" - Vitae

Doesn't it goes both way?

You can also say it in this way: if you don't have time to put money into games like these, why play games that require money or time investment to progress fast instead of easy drop in drop out games that don't require money spending to progress fast?

it's the model of the game, you either spend time or you spend money. In a way, both are the same, one u buy time with money, one is save(earn/buy) money by spend time in game. Just one look at their time in a higher value than money, and one look at money in a higher value than their time.

Quote from Critic

Quote from 6ww

Quote from Critic

Quote from 6ww

Quote from Critic

Riku : Except that that's not what you were arguing with me about. You were arguing that Japan's standard of living was the reason for the price discrepancy because they "dont have that much extra money to afford gaming". Then when I provided evidence on how wrong you are, you ignore all the evidence by claiming you know someone who told you Japan is poor as if that was some sort of proper counter argument.

6ww : I'm not sure who's argument you thought got debunked, but if you thought it was me then you better go reread the thread. Also, nobody is saying "everybody" is wrong. We're saying Riku is wrong (about Japan being poor and unable to afford extra money for gaming as the reason for the cheap prices).

There is a reason why I kept it in a general sense, rather than going for a specific individuals. Again I was just pointing out the negativity and why its becoming violent. Instead of trying to spread pain and suffering and trying to put others down, spread information and actually hold a discussion and be helpful. I never said you got debunked, again I was just speaking or in a literal sense (Typing) in general. You are not a tree, You are not a cloud, you are also not a umbrella. So I dont understand why you are throwing shade AT me, for just trying to spread common sense or trying to figure out just WHY. Soooo maybe YOU should Reread instead of re-sponding in a negative tone AT me. You have a blessed day, because Im sure as hell going to enjoy mine.

How was I spreading pain and suffering, lol. Correcting someone for spreading false info means I'm spreading pain and suffering? Are you his mom or his alter ego? If you're this sensitive, then maybe the forum is not for you.

As for the negativity, YOU are the one calling me out. Not the other way around. My arguments until you posted was related to the topic of this thread. Since this is a thread about JP vs GameForge and someone tries to justify one of those differences based on wrong info, I think it's appropriate to correct that info. YOU on the other hand is spreading all the negativity with trying to villainize me as spreading pain and suffering. So YOU are the one who is going totally off-topic and trying to turn an on-topic argument into a personal attack.

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No one was calling you out to begin with, Unless you are a hive-mind of some sort and you are a majority with one consciousness then I would understand why you are a bit tilted. But at this point, I'm pretty sure there is a language barrier or a slang barrier of some sorts, because apparently we didn't learn to understand to read things and assume it wasn't directed towards themselves. But again, if you want to take this LITERALLY to fit your own narrative, fine, because at the end of the day, I'm chilling with my umbrella drink crisping my skin in the sun. If you want the spotlight I might as well give it to you since no one else wanted to donate.

Advice: Reread my first post and tell me that I was coming for you, it wasn't off topic I was asking what was the point of this.

Anyways you do you girl, before I get in trouble with mods or something I'm going to let you flip tables with others. Like I said, you have a blessed day.

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In your reply to me, you LITERALLY said : "Instead of trying to spread pain and suffering and trying to put others down, spread information and actually hold a discussion and be helpful."

Like I said, my arguments until you posted was related to the topic of this thread. Since this is a thread about JP vs GameForge and someone tries to justify one of those differences based on wrong info, I think it's appropriate to correct that info. YOU on the other hand is spreading all the negativity with trying to villainize me as spreading pain and suffering. So YOU are the one who is going totally off-topic and trying to turn an on-topic argument into a personal attack.

Quote from Riku

Quote from Critic

Quote from Riku

Quote from 6ww

I wasnt talking about the point to begin with. Im talking about the post after the first 10 that got to the point and instead of being constructive and getting to the point, its becoming quite, questionable in the direction of this post. Unless the dyslexia is screwing me over (Which it probably is) Im pretty sure this got debunked already so I dont see why everything is getting more violent and everyone is "Wrong" because they used to live there/ or dont know but they google up digits or had a friend that lived there. I could be wrong but thats what I see. Like you saw me asking what is the point of this post, when I actual meant whats the point of the negativity and brutal responses from the more "later posts" than the beginning.

Well not much to say anymore, all i am saying at the end is there is overhead cost for company hiring people and so on and a lot other factor that may changes the SC cost. But if they wanna say JP server is better go ahead, i already stated my point that simply no shared bank in JP server itself already a turn off for me. But again like all my post, those are my opinion, everyone has their own opinion and what they like. They like cheap SC, then go ahead and go to JP server. If they want GF to change the price of SC, then just ask GF to change it, which i doubt they will change it. Due to overhead cost and other cost they need for their company to make profit, a reasonable price is needed for our server.

Riku : Except that that's not what you were arguing with me about. You were arguing that Japan's standard of living was the reason for the price discrepancy because they "dont have that much extra money to afford gaming". Then when I provided evidence on how wrong you are, you ignore all the evidence by claiming you know someone who told you Japan is poor as if that was some sort of proper counter argument.

6ww : I'm not sure who's argument you thought got debunked, but if you thought it was me then you better go reread the thread. Also, nobody is saying "everybody" is wrong. We're saying Riku is wrong (about Japan being poor and unable to afford extra money for gaming as the reason for the cheap prices).

Well I read what you said, and understand your perspective and i am telling you what lead me to believe what i believe. And that's my perspective, I didn't ignored ur evidence, i simply take it in and look at ur perspective and it make sense too. Just because i didn't came out and say, Critic you are almighty you are right, doesn't mean i disagree with u. From beginning of the post and now, just discuss to see each other perspective. Never once i said you are wrong, all my comment is to only explain what lead to believe what i believe from my experienced. If you don't want to understand my perspective on why i see thing the way it is, then it's fine. If the discussion you want is doesnt give a shit about other perspective, all they have to do is say you are right, then okay i am not goin to go further discussion anymore. And at the end, number from online is on thing, and if we never live in JP we will never know the life there, we can read all stuff on online all we want, but it is not always the same as how online said it is.

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There's no perspective here to consider. We are talking about facts. Your perspective doesn't change facts. It Is fact that Japan is not poor and is comparable to the west in wealth. Your trying to justify the price discrepancy between JP and NA/EU because you say they're poor and "dont have that much extra money to afford gaming" is simply wrong irrespective of your perspective. Just because you know someone from Japan who thinks otherwise does not change that fact. That would be like saying I know someone from the US who can't afford the cash shop, therefore the US is poor and should have lower prices than EU. We're talking about countries, not individuals or even neighborhoods.

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Okay you are right, i am wrong.